NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by illini25 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:00 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/tw ... 24387.html

Good read about Gatto and Code.

Of course Gatto got his adidas start as a favor from Sonny Vacarro. Code spent several years at Nike before working at adidas but his separation from Nike was contentious.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by Redbird CC Fan » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:26 pm

I am curious if ESPN is directly involved as well? It has been relatively recent that they have gotten into broadcasting more high school games, and I would be willing to bet the money they paid for these games was used to funnel kids to certain programs, etc. I would love it if Pitino flipped and had dirt on ESPN, etc.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by pndbaseball12 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:26 am

tribecalledquest wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:51 pm
This is the best take I have read on it all.

Schools don't have to pay players. Just let them make their own deals on other stuff.

https://sports.yahoo.com/solution-colle ... 08228.html
This is what I have been more on board with lately. This avoids Title IX problems also because every athlete has the opportunity to make their own money. I am still a fervent opponent of the schools themselves paying the players because they are already compensated by the school, albeit not a direct paycheck.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by squirrel » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:35 am

pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:26 am
tribecalledquest wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:51 pm
This is the best take I have read on it all.

Schools don't have to pay players. Just let them make their own deals on other stuff.

https://sports.yahoo.com/solution-colle ... 08228.html
This is what I have been more on board with lately. This avoids Title IX problems also because every athlete has the opportunity to make their own money. I am still a fervent opponent of the schools themselves paying the players because they are already compensated by the school, albeit not a direct paycheck.
Right...People forget (or simply choose to ignore or minimize) they are getting the equivalent of $100K+ in the form of free education, housing, food, gear, etc.

I just would rather not see the education infrastructure forsake their core mission to serve as a minor league system for sports in the US.

The market and opportunity is there for building a robust club and professional minor league system in many sports in the US, especially football and basketball.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by tribecalledquest » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:45 am

squirrel wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:35 am
pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:26 am
tribecalledquest wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:51 pm
This is the best take I have read on it all.

Schools don't have to pay players. Just let them make their own deals on other stuff.

https://sports.yahoo.com/solution-colle ... 08228.html
This is what I have been more on board with lately. This avoids Title IX problems also because every athlete has the opportunity to make their own money. I am still a fervent opponent of the schools themselves paying the players because they are already compensated by the school, albeit not a direct paycheck.
Right...People forget (or simply choose to ignore or minimize) they are getting the equivalent of $100K+ in the form of free education, housing, food, gear, etc.

I just would rather not see the education infrastructure forsake their core mission to serve as a minor league system for sports in the US.

The market and opportunity is there for building a robust club and professional minor league system in many sports in the US, especially football and basketball.
Why not let the players decide to negotiate what they want for compensation?
"When the speech condemns a free press, you are hearing the words of a tyrant."
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by squirrel » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:52 am

tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:45 am

Why not let the players decide to negotiate what they want for compensation?
We'll never agree on this, but they are compensated, rather considerably well already.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by pndbaseball12 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:57 am

tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:45 am
squirrel wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:35 am
pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:26 am


This is what I have been more on board with lately. This avoids Title IX problems also because every athlete has the opportunity to make their own money. I am still a fervent opponent of the schools themselves paying the players because they are already compensated by the school, albeit not a direct paycheck.
Right...People forget (or simply choose to ignore or minimize) they are getting the equivalent of $100K+ in the form of free education, housing, food, gear, etc.

I just would rather not see the education infrastructure forsake their core mission to serve as a minor league system for sports in the US.

The market and opportunity is there for building a robust club and professional minor league system in many sports in the US, especially football and basketball.
Why not let the players decide to negotiate what they want for compensation?
Because then you have to come up with money for all of the other sports. If you want only basketball and football players to have the opportunity to participate in college athletics, this is how you reach that endgame. If you move to paying the players, you can kiss all other sports goodbye.
The difference between the impossible and the possible lies in a mans determination
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by tribecalledquest » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:03 am

squirrel wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:52 am
tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:45 am

Why not let the players decide to negotiate what they want for compensation?
We'll never agree on this, but they are compensated, rather considerably well already.
That's not compensation. They aren't allowed to negotiate the terms. They could get a lot of that stuff covered via grants, academic aid and loans.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by tribecalledquest » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:04 am

pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:57 am
tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:45 am
squirrel wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:35 am


Right...People forget (or simply choose to ignore or minimize) they are getting the equivalent of $100K+ in the form of free education, housing, food, gear, etc.

I just would rather not see the education infrastructure forsake their core mission to serve as a minor league system for sports in the US.

The market and opportunity is there for building a robust club and professional minor league system in many sports in the US, especially football and basketball.
Why not let the players decide to negotiate what they want for compensation?
Because then you have to come up with money for all of the other sports. If you want only basketball and football players to have the opportunity to participate in college athletics, this is how you reach that endgame. If you move to paying the players, you can kiss all other sports goodbye.
Not true at all. There is an entire division of college athletics that has a ton of different sports and none of them on scholarship. D3 is a fantastic model for the NCAA.
"When the speech condemns a free press, you are hearing the words of a tyrant."
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by pndbaseball12 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:17 am

tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:04 am
pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:57 am
tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:45 am


Why not let the players decide to negotiate what they want for compensation?
Because then you have to come up with money for all of the other sports. If you want only basketball and football players to have the opportunity to participate in college athletics, this is how you reach that endgame. If you move to paying the players, you can kiss all other sports goodbye.
Not true at all. There is an entire division of college athletics that has a ton of different sports and none of them on scholarship. D3 is a fantastic model for the NCAA.
Let me rephrase then, you can kiss division 1 athletics other than basketball and football, maybe baseball good bye.
The difference between the impossible and the possible lies in a mans determination
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by tribecalledquest » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:25 am

pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:17 am
tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:04 am
pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:57 am


Because then you have to come up with money for all of the other sports. If you want only basketball and football players to have the opportunity to participate in college athletics, this is how you reach that endgame. If you move to paying the players, you can kiss all other sports goodbye.
Not true at all. There is an entire division of college athletics that has a ton of different sports and none of them on scholarship. D3 is a fantastic model for the NCAA.
Let me rephrase then, you can kiss division 1 athletics other than basketball and football, maybe baseball good bye.
I hear ya. But, IMO, it is not the responsibility of D1 basketball and football players to pay for the tennis programs.
"When the speech condemns a free press, you are hearing the words of a tyrant."
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by pndbaseball12 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:06 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:25 am
pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:17 am
tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:04 am


Not true at all. There is an entire division of college athletics that has a ton of different sports and none of them on scholarship. D3 is a fantastic model for the NCAA.
Let me rephrase then, you can kiss division 1 athletics other than basketball and football, maybe baseball good bye.
I hear ya. But, IMO, it is not the responsibility of D1 basketball and football players to pay for the tennis programs.
This all comes back to Title IX though. You have to have an equal number of female scholarships as men. So if there are 85 scholarship football players(not counting basketball because thats an easy fix), you have to have 85 female scholarship opportunities. Where is the school going to find the money to stay in Title IX compliance if all of the profits are going to basketball and football players?
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by tribecalledquest » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:14 pm

pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:06 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:25 am
pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:17 am


Let me rephrase then, you can kiss division 1 athletics other than basketball and football, maybe baseball good bye.
I hear ya. But, IMO, it is not the responsibility of D1 basketball and football players to pay for the tennis programs.
This all comes back to Title IX though. You have to have an equal number of female scholarships as men. So if there are 85 scholarship football players(not counting basketball because thats an easy fix), you have to have 85 female scholarship opportunities. Where is the school going to find the money to stay in Title IX compliance if all of the profits are going to basketball and football players?
Yep. It's a tough deal all the way around.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by Redbird CC Fan » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:21 pm

pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:26 am
tribecalledquest wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:51 pm
This is the best take I have read on it all.

Schools don't have to pay players. Just let them make their own deals on other stuff.

https://sports.yahoo.com/solution-colle ... 08228.html
This is what I have been more on board with lately. This avoids Title IX problems also because every athlete has the opportunity to make their own money. I am still a fervent opponent of the schools themselves paying the players because they are already compensated by the school, albeit not a direct paycheck.
I get that. It would be an easy step that eliminates 95% of the fair compensation argument.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by illini25 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:51 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:25 am
pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:17 am
tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:04 am


Not true at all. There is an entire division of college athletics that has a ton of different sports and none of them on scholarship. D3 is a fantastic model for the NCAA.
Let me rephrase then, you can kiss division 1 athletics other than basketball and football, maybe baseball good bye.
I hear ya. But, IMO, it is not the responsibility of D1 basketball and football players to pay for the tennis programs.
Tribe, you're an ***! ;)

In all seriousness, tennis programs are typically great examples of the student-athlete model with average GPAs (with lots of tough majors) at or near the top of all teams.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by tribecalledquest » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:53 pm

illini25 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:51 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:25 am
pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:17 am


Let me rephrase then, you can kiss division 1 athletics other than basketball and football, maybe baseball good bye.
I hear ya. But, IMO, it is not the responsibility of D1 basketball and football players to pay for the tennis programs.
Tribe, you're an ***! ;)

In all seriousness, tennis programs are typically great examples of the student-athlete model with average GPAs (with lots of tough majors) at or near the top of all teams.
I agree 100%.

To be fair, I LIKE the current model. It’s what I grew up with and what I follow and know. But I also intellectually know what the right this is to do. Would it affect what I currently know and love? Of course. But that doesn’t mean the system is at all fair to the MBB and FB players at the highest level. I don’t want it to change but feel that it should.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by illini25 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:57 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:53 pm
illini25 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:51 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:25 am


I hear ya. But, IMO, it is not the responsibility of D1 basketball and football players to pay for the tennis programs.
Tribe, you're an ***! ;)

In all seriousness, tennis programs are typically great examples of the student-athlete model with average GPAs (with lots of tough majors) at or near the top of all teams.
I agree 100%.

To be fair, I LIKE the current model. It’s what I grew up with and what I follow and know. But I also intellectually know what the right this is to do. Would it affect what I currently know and love? Of course. But that doesn’t mean the system is at all fair to the MBB and FB players at the highest level. I don’t want it to change but feel that it should.
It's probably time for a change.

I just hope it doesn't mess up Illini tennis since it's one of the most successful programs at Illinois.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by tribecalledquest » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:00 pm

illini25 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:57 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:53 pm
illini25 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:51 pm


Tribe, you're an ***! ;)

In all seriousness, tennis programs are typically great examples of the student-athlete model with average GPAs (with lots of tough majors) at or near the top of all teams.
I agree 100%.

To be fair, I LIKE the current model. It’s what I grew up with and what I follow and know. But I also intellectually know what the right this is to do. Would it affect what I currently know and love? Of course. But that doesn’t mean the system is at all fair to the MBB and FB players at the highest level. I don’t want it to change but feel that it should.
It's probably time for a change.

I just hope it doesn't mess up Illini tennis since it's one of the most successful programs at Illinois.
I don’t think it would. I do a lot with D3 schools. The powerhouses there continue to be powerhouses each season. Things aren’t much different at that level in regards to that stuff. Kids will choose to go to the place that wins.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by BigB » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:17 am

pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:06 pm
You have to have an equal number of female scholarships as men. So if there are 85 scholarship football players(not counting basketball because thats an easy fix), you have to have 85 female scholarship opportunities.
The rules require a number of women's scholarship that reflects the ration of men/women enrollment, not an exact equal number.
If the male enrollment is 2x the female enrollment then the school must provide a number of women's scholarships that are half of what they provide men.
A summary of the rule is this statement from NCAA.
"An institution must ..Provide participation opportunities for women and men that are substantially proportionate to their respective rates of enrollment of full-time undergraduate students"

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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by pndbaseball12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:57 am

BigB wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:17 am
pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:06 pm
You have to have an equal number of female scholarships as men. So if there are 85 scholarship football players(not counting basketball because thats an easy fix), you have to have 85 female scholarship opportunities.
The rules require a number of women's scholarship that reflects the ration of men/women enrollment, not an exact equal number.
If the male enrollment is 2x the female enrollment then the school must provide a number of women's scholarships that are half of what they provide men.
A summary of the rule is this statement from NCAA.
"An institution must ..Provide participation opportunities for women and men that are substantially proportionate to their respective rates of enrollment of full-time undergraduate students"
This would still require womens scholarships that would have to be funded somehow if all of the profits were going to mens basketball and football was my point. Pretty much the only women's programs I can think of that would bring in a significant amount of revenue to remain self sufficient are UCONN and MAYBE Tennessee.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by tribecalledquest » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:11 am

pndbaseball12 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:57 am
BigB wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:17 am
pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:06 pm
You have to have an equal number of female scholarships as men. So if there are 85 scholarship football players(not counting basketball because thats an easy fix), you have to have 85 female scholarship opportunities.
The rules require a number of women's scholarship that reflects the ration of men/women enrollment, not an exact equal number.
If the male enrollment is 2x the female enrollment then the school must provide a number of women's scholarships that are half of what they provide men.
A summary of the rule is this statement from NCAA.
"An institution must ..Provide participation opportunities for women and men that are substantially proportionate to their respective rates of enrollment of full-time undergraduate students"
This would still require womens scholarships that would have to be funded somehow if all of the profits were going to mens basketball and football was my point. Pretty much the only women's programs I can think of that would bring in a significant amount of revenue to remain self sufficient are UCONN and MAYBE Tennessee.
Right...but this assumes everything else stays the same as it relates to money spent on coaches salaries, travel, facility upgrades, etc. You could adjust some things in other areas and make it work.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by tribecalledquest » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:06 pm

I like Sean Miller at Arizona a lot. But the assistant that got caught up in the FBI thing has worked for him for 10 years. Don’t act like you had no idea what was going on. No one with a brain believes that.
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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by roadtrip » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:32 am

What do you want him to say "you got me, I will accept my punishment" All coaches are going to deny it until they are caught

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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by tombs14 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:16 am

Pitino banked that Adidas money directly - :lol:

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Re: NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

Post by illini25 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:05 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep. ... /733300001

I laughed when I read this. Not because I doubt Beilein but because of Michigan basketball's rich tradition of "dirty" dealings (Ed Martin FBI, IRS and DOJ; Mateen Cleaves recruiting trip; Fab 5 cash; Traylor/Taylor era cash).

No biggie. I just find it funny.

Edit: And give them credit for cleaning it up.
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