Is the end near?

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94 Knight
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Is the end near?

Post by 94 Knight » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:14 am

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/pro ... -illinois/

The subject of the future of High School football came up a few times last Fall. I am 41 years old and fully convinced and fully prepared that High School football will be gone before I die.

Everyone will have an opinion on this and I will have mine. I started playing tackle football at age 10 in 1986, the first year the Pee Wee Division was formed. Not a lot of vicious hits going on at the Ten year old level. However, we did learn proper techniques to tackle and hot to take a hit. As time passed it seemed like JFL programs got "greedy" for lack of a better word and just kept getting younger and younger divisions. I watched my Cousin Coach his son's Flag Football team and I remember thinking...Flag Football, teaching kids to arm tackle, reach, and grab instead of tackle properly. Habits that will be hard to break as they get older and have to tackle.

Again, my opinion but I am against reduced practice time. Watching Peoria football last year, clearly all the teams are spending the majority of their practice time on Offense. Defense is a lost art. I think Summer practice is where the kids learn proper techniques for tackling and blocking. Along with HOW to get tackled and take a hit. I compare reducing practice time for fear of kids getting hurt to suggesting that teens driving is dangerous, so we are going to reduce the amount of Behind the Wheel training for Student Drivers. We don't want 15 years olds behind the wheel because they could get injured while practicing to drive. All of us with a license know that Behind the Wheel is where we mastered the art of driving. Same goes for football. Those practices are where the players learn proper technique and get past the "thinking" stage and enter the "reacting" stage. Or as Nick Saban says "You don't do it until you get it right, you do it until you forget how to do it wrong".

Just thought I'd share the article since we kind of touched on this subject last season. I guess it is what it is and we should enjoy Friday Nights under the lights before they fade out.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by Bobby Thigpen » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:03 am

94 Knight wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:14 am
https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/pro ... -illinois/

The subject of the future of High School football came up a few times last Fall. I am 41 years old and fully convinced and fully prepared that High School football will be gone before I die.

Everyone will have an opinion on this and I will have mine. I started playing tackle football at age 10 in 1986, the first year the Pee Wee Division was formed. Not a lot of vicious hits going on at the Ten year old level. However, we did learn proper techniques to tackle and hot to take a hit. As time passed it seemed like JFL programs got "greedy" for lack of a better word and just kept getting younger and younger divisions. I watched my Cousin Coach his son's Flag Football team and I remember thinking...Flag Football, teaching kids to arm tackle, reach, and grab instead of tackle properly. Habits that will be hard to break as they get older and have to tackle.

Again, my opinion but I am against reduced practice time. Watching Peoria football last year, clearly all the teams are spending the majority of their practice time on Offense. Defense is a lost art. I think Summer practice is where the kids learn proper techniques for tackling and blocking. Along with HOW to get tackled and take a hit. I compare reducing practice time for fear of kids getting hurt to suggesting that teens driving is dangerous, so we are going to reduce the amount of Behind the Wheel training for Student Drivers. We don't want 15 years olds behind the wheel because they could get injured while practicing to drive. All of us with a license know that Behind the Wheel is where we mastered the art of driving. Same goes for football. Those practices are where the players learn proper technique and get past the "thinking" stage and enter the "reacting" stage. Or as Nick Saban says "You don't do it until you get it right, you do it until you forget how to do it wrong".

Just thought I'd share the article since we kind of touched on this subject last season. I guess it is what it is and we should enjoy Friday Nights under the lights before they fade out.
They did reduce the amount of time of BTW training with teachers about 8-10 years ago.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by 94 Knight » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:18 am

IL Behind-the-Wheel Requirements
If you are younger than 18 years old, you'll need to complete the following behind-the-wheel requirements before advancing from your learner's permit to a provisional driver's license:

Driver's training during a Driver's Ed course.
At least 50 hours of supervised driving practice.

I 100% assure you that I did not need 50 hours of Supervised driving practice in 1992 to get my license.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by Ned Schneebly » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:30 am

94 Knight...I agree 100% with your post and unfortunately, think you're right about the direction we're heading with regards to youth & high school football. If I was king for a day, I'd advocate not to start kids in JFL until they're in 7th grade. My reasoning is that the majority of kids just haven't developed athletic skills to the point where they can safely compete. There's always 2-3 kids who are far beyond the average and we've all seen games in which they look like men among boys. I think the skills & abilities gap starts closing around 12 years of age and most kids can compete, learn proper position technique and be on more of a level playing field. The other thing I believe could be a positive result is that you have fewer coaches needed and so less likelihood of just getting dads out there whose idea of practice is slamming kids into each other in Oklahoma drills and running wind sprints. All that does is foster bad habits. I'd rather have 6 or 7 quality coaches for Jr High age players than need 15-20 to cover all the levels down to kindergarten kids playing flag. Although I love the game of football and played it way back when, I wouldn't coach. Not because I don't want to but because I'm not qualified and don't want to teach kids incorrectly. Just my thoughts based on observations over the years.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by Reggie » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:21 am

My take is that this is merely the first shot in the war to eliminate football at all levels. It starts at the youth level and gradually works its way through the different levels and is done under the guise of safety. I agree with one of the coaches who said that at the youth level tackling is more comical than physical.

My prediction is that when football is gone it will not be due to legislature but by the fact that litigation will not make the sport feasible at the high school level. The lawsuits against the NFL are only the beginning. By contrast of how I believe the legislation will run its course I believe that eventually the lawsuits will filter down to the collegiate then the high school levels. Among my issues about all the attacks on the NFL regarding concussions and CTE is that it seems pretty common sense that CTE develops as almost a gradual process as opposed to only happening at the end of a career, which of course happens to be the NFL for those who achieve the highest level. The NFL can afford to pay billions of dollars in lawsuits and the NCAA will be able to fend it off for a while with their vast resources. But high schools will not have that luxury and that IMO is what will eventually lead to its demise.

It will be a sad day for me as not only will the game I love with all my heart disappear but as well many valuable life lessons will be gone as well. There has never been another sport I have played or coached that has taught me as much about life as the game of football has. Obviously only a very few advance to play beyond high school. But all who play at that level benefit from the lessons the game teaches and can use that to parlay success well beyond the gridiron.
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Re: Is the end near?

Post by GoBirdsGo II » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:43 am

94 Knight wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:14 am
https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/pro ... -illinois/

The subject of the future of High School football came up a few times last Fall. I am 41 years old and fully convinced and fully prepared that High School football will be gone before I die.

Everyone will have an opinion on this and I will have mine. I started playing tackle football at age 10 in 1986, the first year the Pee Wee Division was formed. Not a lot of vicious hits going on at the Ten year old level. However, we did learn proper techniques to tackle and hot to take a hit. As time passed it seemed like JFL programs got "greedy" for lack of a better word and just kept getting younger and younger divisions. I watched my Cousin Coach his son's Flag Football team and I remember thinking...Flag Football, teaching kids to arm tackle, reach, and grab instead of tackle properly. Habits that will be hard to break as they get older and have to tackle.

Again, my opinion but I am against reduced practice time. Watching Peoria football last year, clearly all the teams are spending the majority of their practice time on Offense. Defense is a lost art. I think Summer practice is where the kids learn proper techniques for tackling and blocking. Along with HOW to get tackled and take a hit. I compare reducing practice time for fear of kids getting hurt to suggesting that teens driving is dangerous, so we are going to reduce the amount of Behind the Wheel training for Student Drivers. We don't want 15 years olds behind the wheel because they could get injured while practicing to drive. All of us with a license know that Behind the Wheel is where we mastered the art of driving. Same goes for football. Those practices are where the players learn proper technique and get past the "thinking" stage and enter the "reacting" stage. Or as Nick Saban says "You don't do it until you get it right, you do it until you forget how to do it wrong".

Just thought I'd share the article since we kind of touched on this subject last season. I guess it is what it is and we should enjoy Friday Nights under the lights before they fade out.
Great read buddy!! :zappl

1)While you and I, and many others, did not need 50 hours of BTW to satisfy the state's requirements, kids like my daughter did, and we most likely doubled that. When I was growing up(maybe even the same for you) & getting close to driving age, my Dad & brothers would toss me the keys and say, "You're driving". There were several times when right after school my Mom would take me driving before my Dad got home from work. Of course, these were usually mundane trips to like church, school, grocery store, etc. Short trips but valuable time BTW nonetheless. We didn't have state mandated hours BTW then. Didn't need it. Our parents(family) were actually involved. IMHO, that's why the state has to step in and MAKE the parents spend the necessary time with their kids BTW. Both parents work, they're tired after a longs days employment, last thing they wanna do is take their kid driving. Sadly, some do as some of my buddies did and just fudged the paperwork where you log your hours BTW and present the day they get their license at the DMV. Parents are lazy today. Maybe I should say burnt out. They donate money, but when it comes time to donate any effort, good luck with that. IMHO, there are very few Reggie's families these days and again why I feel the state has to step in.

2)JFL is silly. Not all programs, but I've seen many that are. All they care about is winning. They put the most talented kid at QB/RB, run a hokey offense that will never work at any level other than JFL, and so be it. Fundamentals tossed out the window and no one, that is on the winning teams, seemingly care. They won. What more is there. My sisters ex-bf nephews played for Pekin JFL. They'd come to Metamora, I'd go watch & visit. They ran some goofy offense, beat us every time. They'd brag to me afterwards, "We beat Metamora", all the while I'm thinking in my head, "That cr@p won't work at the HS level". It didn't either. All the years they played HS FB, Metamora handed them their lunch. Funny, they never really wanted to visit much then after the game as they did in JFL. Same situation when my nephew played for Heights JFL. Had a kid that was a freak. They put him at QB. He ran right, left, up the middle, whatever. That was our offense. We won, everyone was happy. Well, except folks like me that get it. What were the kids really learning, nothing. My wife coaches 6th grade VB. For a lot of the kids, it's their first experience with VB. Every kid starts at some point, every kid plays. Regardless of the situation. I see it all the time. Those parents afterwards that don't get it, ya know, it's 6th grade vb where it should be about learning the proper skills & techniques, not winning(that's just the icing), but their reaction is play the best 6 kids and let's win. See it with soooooo many other programs as well. Can't even begin to tell you how many times I have to have words with an over zealous parent, our team & theirs, that just don't get it.

3)I hope you're wrong. I hope Football never goes away. Definitely high school football.
I'm no President Trump fan but thank you sir for your comments in regard to the NFL and those protesting our nations anthem. You were spot on!!!

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by 94 Knight » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:58 am

GBG- When I said "I didn't need 50 hours of Drivers Ed" I wasnt saying it was a waste. I was replying to the poster who said they have reduced the number of practice hours. Simply not true. I was trying to say that in 1992 the number of hours needed was much less. I should have worded it differently. And that kind of backs my point about practice time. Same thing. Some kids aren't naturals and require a bit more time learning how to tackle and hit.
100% agree with you on JFL. If you are not teaching technique-total waste.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by bigdaddystuck » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:02 pm

After watching a few of my friends kids play JFL and seeing how little technique was being taught or stressed, I decided to not have my kids play JFL. They learned the proper technique their 1st year in high school ball. They didn't have the bad habits that many of the JFL players had and didn't have to unlearn them. IMO, at that age they were more physically able to play then they would have been in JFL.
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Re: Is the end near?

Post by jim beam » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:37 am

All of my sons played JFL but not till late by todays standards. 2 of them started in 7th grade and 2 of them started in 8th grade. They all did fine. I seriously doubt that my grandsons will be playing any kind of football. When I was a kid I don't remember JFL much before 6th grade. (mid 70's) Seems like it was lightweight and heavyweight.
Thanks J.J. for what I consider sound advice!

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by Bobby Thigpen » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:13 am

94 Knight wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:18 am
IL Behind-the-Wheel Requirements
If you are younger than 18 years old, you'll need to complete the following behind-the-wheel requirements before advancing from your learner's permit to a provisional driver's license:

Driver's training during a Driver's Ed course.
At least 50 hours of supervised driving practice.

I 100% assure you that I did not need 50 hours of Supervised driving practice in 1992 to get my license.
50 hours is with your parents. You are only required to drive 6 hours with a teacher.

The 50 hours with parents may not have been necessary in 1992, but you did drive more than 6 hours with a certified instructor.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by 94 Knight » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:27 am

Yes, but still far less than 50.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by MortonOutsider » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:25 am

House Bill 4341 passed out of Committee this week and will now be considered by the full Illinois House.
This bill would ban tackle football for all youth under the age of 12.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by tombs14 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:40 pm

Too lazy to find the article, but I read that an IL house member said this bill is temporarily dead due to widespread anger from parents and community members. Good! Let people govern their own voluntary actions for CS.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by MidstateFan » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:14 pm

tombs14 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:40 pm
Too lazy to find the article, but I read that an IL house member said this bill is temporarily dead due to widespread anger from parents and community members. Good! Let people govern their own voluntary actions for CS.
I can't find it right now either, but it ran in the Journal Star or Pantagraph or both. The general consensus is that the bill was dead (even the sponsor said that.) . Too many with vested interest in youth sports. I don't like tackle football for groups under seventh grade (and to be honest, have seen freshmen who hadn't played JFL pass up those who had by the end of their first season. This at 2A level, so the dynamics at 4A, 5A, etc. would be different.) but I think the number of parents who let their kids play football will slowly decline as the problems with concussions become more widely publicized. (This coming from someone who played high school football, coached HS football, and has supported the local team for decades.).

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by deejay » Tue May 01, 2018 8:10 am

After the latest report, is JFL effectively dead for all practical purposes. I can see parents looking at this report and have second thoughts letting their child play football.
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Re: Is the end near?

Post by Redbird CC Fan » Thu May 24, 2018 7:43 pm

Why not have JFL be flag football? The true purpose of JFL should be to teach kids to love football vs. winning or trying to prep them for high school football.
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Re: Is the end near?

Post by 94 Knight » Fri May 25, 2018 4:51 pm

Because Flag Football teaches them to "grab", a habit that is hard to break when switching to tackle. I've been against Flag from the get go. IMHO the whole point of JFL is to teach proper technique. Same reason that the Frosh Football coach is one of the most important staff positions for a football program in High School.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by Irish4 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:39 am

To be honest there is no reason for a kid to play full contact football before 7th grade. Getting a couple of years getting used to being hit is enough to determine if it is something the kid will enjoy. IMO when kids play several years separated by weight classes it gives them an unrealistic expectation that they will be able to run through a tackle from a kid their same size or 40lbs heavier. I have watched a lot of kids burn out as soon as the reality of not running end around TDs and sacking the QB once a series wears off. On a side note considering the amount of physical wear and tear from concussions....bone spurs....shoulder tears....and broken ribs and fingers....the later the better. Plus the Frosh coach doesn't have to spend the first month of practice undoing bad habits.
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Re: Is the end near?

Post by 94 Knight » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:46 am

Nice to hear from Irish4!!

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by TheHouse » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:43 pm

I think the biggest issue with kids starting early is the coaching and the parents. It can be done safely and a quality coach can teach proper techniques so that the high school coaches don't have to undo anything. I've spent many hours asking the HS coaches how they teach certain things and what their thought process is so that I can teach our kids the best way possible.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by 94 Knight » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:10 am

House-Are you coach JFL in Washington this season? If so let me know if your team plays Woodruff.

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Re: Is the end near?

Post by TheHouse » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:15 pm

94 Knight wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:10 am
House-Are you coach JFL in Washington this season? If so let me know if your team plays Woodruff.
Yes coaching JV. Haven't played them yet. My nephew will be playing for Woodruff seniors

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