Freaking hideous!!!

For the civil discussion of large school football.
Post Reply
User avatar
GoBirdsGo II
All World
All World
Posts: 3376
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:22 pm

Freaking hideous!!!

Post by GoBirdsGo II »

JUST IN: The Sun-Times has obtained a copy of a new state playoff proposal that will be sent to the Illinois High School Association in the next few days.

-No districts, eight-game regular season
-Playoffs expand to 48
The Sun-Times has obtained a copy of a new football playoff proposal expected to be sent to the Illinois High School Association in the next few days.

Twenty-eight schools have signed on in support of a proposal that could serve as an alternative to the controversial districting system that was approved last year and is scheduled to be implemented in 2021.

Under the proposal the playoffs would expand from 32 to 48 teams in each class. There would be an eight-game regular season (and a Week 9 game for non-playoff qualifiers). Schools would continue to form their own conferences and make their own schedules.

The new proposal lays out the following rationale:

“We believe expanding playoffs from 32 teams to 48 per class (256 teams to 384 teams overall), is a much better solution to the issues and concerns about football scheduling — the drive for five and conference shuffling than the districting model. By only needing three wins to qualify for the playoffs, the pressure on schools, coaches and athletic directors to find five wins is removed. The need to change conferences to find five wins is also removed.”

West Aurora Athletic Director Jason Buckley and East Aurora Athletic Director Fil Torres are spearheading the effort. They reached out to schools across the state to get input. It’s been floating around the CPS and has support from Glenbrook North to the Western Big Six conference.

“We didn’t want this to be a strictly suburban Chicago thing,” Buckley said. “We reached out to a lot of schools in the northern and western part of the state, as well as central and southern Illinois. We wanted to do something that made sense to the largest amount of people possible and we got quite a bit of info from all of them. The other piece we tried to go with was, if you are in favor of it and you are willing to put your name on it that is great, it carries some weight.”


In the districting system conferences will be eliminated. The IHSA will determine playoff classes before the season and break each class into eight or nine team districts based on enrollment and geography. Districts will be set for two years.

Teams will play a nine-week regular season and any non-district regular season games will not count in the district standings. The top four teams in each district qualify for the playoffs.

The IHSA recently released a proposed district mock up showing what the districts would have looked like in the 2018-19 season. One of the 8A districts contains Belleville East, Edwardsville, O’Fallon, Lincoln-Way East, Joliet Central, Joliet West, Lockport and Minooka. It’s a four-hour drive from Lincoln-Way East to O’Fallon.

“In the district system there is a great potential for schools from our conference to have to travel down to the St. Louis area to play district games,” Buckley said. “And there are some schools that are going from west of Rockford to Chicago and vice versa. Fans aren’t going to travel those distances to see their teams play.”

RELATED

Districting proposal passes, entire football landscape faces massive change
Taft coach John Tsarouchas said he appreciated the thoroughness of the new proposal but would like to see some more options.

“The [newly] proposed system minimizes the [scheduling] problem but it doesn’t completely eliminate it,” Tsarouchas said. “The district system eliminates the scheduling problem but it creates plenty of other potential issues for teams across the state”

The vote that passed districting was very close. There were 324 schools in favor, 307 opposed and 69 had no opinion. Eighty-five percent of schools voted.

The following schools submitted the new proposal to the IHSA: Glenbrook North, East Aurora, West Aurora, York, Dundee-Crown, Lake Forest, Pekin, Barrington, Antioch, West Chicago, Moline, Plainfield North, Plainfield Central, Oswego East, Joliet West, Joliet Central, Romeoville, Elgin, Larkin, Stevenson, Wauconda, Lemont, Rock Island and the Western Big Six conference.

Read the full new proposal here: 9 game schedule Football Proposal.pdf

After the proposal is submitted to the IHSA it would go out to Town Hall meetings in early November for feedback. Then the IHSA’s Legislative Commission would vote on Nov. 25 on whether to send it to an all-school ballot. If that is successful the schools would vote between Dec. 2 and Dec. 16 and the results would be revealed on Dec. 17.
I'm no President Trump fan but thank you sir for your comments in regard to the NFL and those protesting our nations anthem. You were spot on!!!

CIS
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 3967
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:34 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by CIS »

Hmm...not sure how I feel about this. I do know that from a Pekin perspective that many do not like the idea of district play since Pekin would have some tremendous travel distances and being in a conference with Quincy, Moline and Edwardsville would not seem natural. I also know that some of the other Mid Illini school fans didn't like breaking up the Mid Illini and placing some of the schools in with some far flung schools who are not near the Peoria area. GBG, what don't like about the new proposal? Expanding playoffs? Eight game regular season? Would you be willing to work with this plan and maybe make some changes or do you like the district idea? Is there a totally different idea out there? I also wonder, should non football playing schools be allowed to vote on this important football issue? I wonder what was the voting from the non football schools with the district idea?

crkamm
Gold Poster (500 posts)
Gold Poster (500 posts)
Posts: 679
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:43 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by crkamm »

The first question that pops into my feeble mind is;

How are the non-playoff schools supposed to schedule that week 9 game? You can't do it ahead of time. You don't know who the other Non-qualifying teams will be. Is Pekin supposed to tell Urbana "We'll play you the last game, but not if we upset Morton and make it into the playoffs"?
THE LEGEND! As crowned by Johnny Mac
Scientifically proven to be 1.84 X more intelligent than the "Officially recognized Smartest Poster on the Boards".
jmc wrote:you were advanced for your age.

User avatar
Oskee
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:07 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by Oskee »

CIS wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:31 pm
I also wonder, should non football playing schools be allowed to vote on this important football issue? I wonder what was the voting from the non football schools with the district idea?
I think the thought process on allowing non-football schools to vote was that it did affect them. Schools without football had seen their conference affiliations disband and shuffle without them. This affected all their scheduling for other sports as well.

CIS
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 3967
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:34 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by CIS »

crkamm wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:46 am
The first question that pops into my feeble mind is;

How are the non-playoff schools supposed to schedule that week 9 game? You can't do it ahead of time. You don't know who the other Non-qualifying teams will be. Is Pekin supposed to tell Urbana "We'll play you the last game, but not if we upset Morton and make it into the playoffs"?
Yeah, that would be tricky. I imagine many teams would end up only playing eight games, which I don't like. That just seems short. I like 9 game regular season. I don't really like this new plan but I definitely don't like districts. Is there some other solution out there?

User avatar
blownfuse
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:40 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by blownfuse »

3 wins to get in the playoffs??? A 3 win team does not deserve to make the playoffs. Would that 3 win team get matched up with a 9-0 team the first round? If so, what a waste of time and likely more injuries. This whole proposal seems unorganized and quickly thrown together.
2017 large school pick-ems grand champion

User avatar
GoBirdsGo II
All World
All World
Posts: 3376
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:22 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by GoBirdsGo II »

blownfuse wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:47 pm
3 wins to get in the playoffs???
Isn't that pathetic!?!?
I'm no President Trump fan but thank you sir for your comments in regard to the NFL and those protesting our nations anthem. You were spot on!!!

deejay
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 5490
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:16 pm
Location: Morton, Illinois

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by deejay »

This new proposal has flaws, much like the district proposal. This new idea will not have the support of the Executive Board in its present form. They would be better off in delaying the entire reorganization until a well thought out plan in proposed.
go cubs go!

CIS
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 3967
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:34 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by CIS »

I agree with all thoughts so far....three wins is not good, like someone said, would that mean that 3-5 team plays 8-0 team in first round...lots of blowouts.... Also agree that most teams are not going to be able to schedule a week 9 game, and really nobody would care at that point, an 0-8 team playing a 1-7 team is not going to draw any fans, waste of time. I also agree that the plan seems like it was thrown together, although it seems like there is something like this plan in Missouri or Minnesota. I also agree that it would be nice to come up with a better plan. I do not like districts but this plan seems far fetched.

User avatar
O&B 78
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 4595
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:22 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by O&B 78 »

I’ve said this before, this district stuff and this proposal are all about teams conference shopping all the time looking for an easy 5-6 wins and switching conferences every couple years. The easiest and best solution in my mind is to let schools switch conferences once every 10 years and after the state wide period to switch is over all conferences are locked for the next 10 years
I read the back of the Book, You lose.

User avatar
GoBirdsGo II
All World
All World
Posts: 3376
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:22 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by GoBirdsGo II »

O&B 78 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:47 pm
I’ve said this before, this district stuff and this proposal are all about teams conference shopping all the time looking for an easy 5-6 wins and switching conferences every couple years. The easiest and best solution in my mind is to let schools switch conferences once every 10 years and after the state wide period to switch is over all conferences are locked for the next 10 years
Precisely what I've been saying all along as well.

What's so hard for the IHSA to figure out??? The districts is all about smaller schools jumping conference to conference looking for that elusive 5 win season. How to cure it, simple. You change conferences, you're locked in for 7 years. You switch during those 7 years, whatever time frame is left within those 7 years, you're not eligible for the playoffs for that time.
I'm no President Trump fan but thank you sir for your comments in regard to the NFL and those protesting our nations anthem. You were spot on!!!

CIS
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 3967
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:34 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by CIS »

Has anybody at the IHSA level suggested or proposed this? Seems reasonable to me...

User avatar
Oskee
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:07 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by Oskee »

GoBirdsGo II wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:12 pm
You change conferences, you're locked in for 7 years. You switch during those 7 years, whatever time frame is left within those 7 years, you're not eligible for the playoffs for that time.
Hypothetical...
You form a conference in 2020. After 2 years, a couple of geographically important schools leave the conference and it dissolves. Are all remaining schools ineligible for the playoffs for 5 years?
Last edited by Oskee on Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TheRoller
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:59 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by TheRoller »

blownfuse wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:47 pm
3 wins to get in the playoffs??? A 3 win team does not deserve to make the playoffs. Would that 3 win team get matched up with a 9-0 team the first round? If so, what a waste of time and likely more injuries. This whole proposal seems unorganized and quickly thrown together.
Actually no, a 3 win team would not automatically get matched up with an 8-0 team. With there being 48 qualifiers in each class you would have to structure the tournament differently and give the top 16 a first round bye (Assuming you simply rank them 1-48 and don't worry about quads). Either way 16 teams would be off week 9 while the other 32 play each other to determine who those 16 face off against in round 2. Theoretically all those 3 win qualifiers will be eliminated by the 5 and 6 win teams they would be paired against. I.E. #17 hosts #48 with the winner playing at #1 in round 2. #18 hosts #47 and moving on to play #2, etc, etc, etc......

I don't like either of these "solutions". Illinois has it's major population centers too spread out for districts to work properly and if you're going to let a 3 win team in the playoffs then just put everyone in the playoffs like basketball and be done with it. I am not sure what authority the IHSA has to dictate when and how a school can move to another conference. Conference affiliations are agreed upon by the member schools (at least as far as I understand it). If the current model is going away and I am forced to choose an option I go with plan "B". Leave the conferences alone, let schools set their own schedules and expand the playoffs if that's what it takes to solve the "crisis" of conference shopping.
Officially recognized as the "Smartest Poster on the Boards"

Tell me what you KNOW, not what you've heard.

User avatar
GoBirdsGo II
All World
All World
Posts: 3376
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:22 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by GoBirdsGo II »

Oskee wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:02 am
GoBirdsGo II wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:12 pm
You change conferences, you're locked in for 7 years. You switch during those 7 years, whatever time frame is left within those 7 years, you're not eligible for the playoffs for that time.
Hypothetical...
You form a conference in 2020. After 2 years, a couple of geographically important schools leave the conference and it dissolves. Are all remaining schools ineligible for the playoffs for 5 years?
Only the schools that left are penalized.
I'm no President Trump fan but thank you sir for your comments in regard to the NFL and those protesting our nations anthem. You were spot on!!!

User avatar
GoBirdsGo II
All World
All World
Posts: 3376
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:22 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by GoBirdsGo II »

2019-20 Proposal 15
Eliminate By-law 5.074 Football Scheduling
Submitted By: William Lapp, Principal – Minonk (Fieldcrest); Brian Quam, Principal – El Paso (E.P.-
Gridley)

Summary of Proposed Changes:
• Removes the by-law directing the IHSA to implement a football scheduling system for regularseason varsity games, impacting the current ability for schools to schedule games AND qualify
for the playoffs as it is currently administered.
Rationale of Submitters:
The proposal that was approved by schools during the 2018-19 legislative session has major impacts to
schools, taking away local authority and decision making powers of member schools. The IHSA has been
a post-season tournament organizer ONLY. No other sport or activity has a regular season that is directed
by the IHSA. The uncertainty of divisions every 2 years, scheduling of officials in a timely manner and
impact to non-varsity scheduling is also a concern. The submitters recognize the issue with the scheduling
and conference affiliation of some member schools. However, this change has greater impact to more
schools, taking away local authority to decision making. The IHSA would create fewer issues with forcing
conferences to accept schools with no affiliation. Lastly, a revisit to the proposal is imperative now that
more of the facts and consequences have been released.
Pros:
1. Promotes the local scheduling of contests to remain and local school boards to continue to be the
ultimate decision making authority as it relates to conference affiliation and regular season
scheduling/travel.
2. Prevents the implementation of a proposal that impacts the make-up of current conferences that
have strong relationships and programs.
3. Unless the by-law is removed, officials will not be able to be secured until divisions and games are
released as late as January of the year games will be played, causing major scheduling issues.
Officials in the Heart of Illinois Conference are currently scheduled 2 or more years in advance.
4. Prevents the financial impact to schools who will lose potential contests with specific schools
whether immediately or over the first 3 to 4 years.
5. Unless the by-law is removed, schools dropping football or moving to 8 man after divisions have
been established will have major implications to scheduling, especially in the smaller divisions.
6. The Illinois Football Coaches Association did not demonstrate support for by-law 5.074.
7. There were 21% more votes cast than schools who actually have football teams, raising concern
that approximately 150 schools without football impacted a vote related to football that
succeeded by only 17 votes (324-307-69).
Con:
1. Issues with some schools having scheduling issues or no conference affiliation remain
I'm no President Trump fan but thank you sir for your comments in regard to the NFL and those protesting our nations anthem. You were spot on!!!

User avatar
GoBirdsGo II
All World
All World
Posts: 3376
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:22 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by GoBirdsGo II »

Thankfully someone has a freaking clue!!!!
I'm no President Trump fan but thank you sir for your comments in regard to the NFL and those protesting our nations anthem. You were spot on!!!

The Truth Be Told
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Posts: 466
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Freaking hideous!!!

Post by The Truth Be Told »

.What no comments on Proposal 12? That should make a LOT of people happy. They will be dancing in the aisles should it get voted on and passed.

Post Reply