Land of 10,000 coaches

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shaunguth
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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by shaunguth » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:16 pm

SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
shaunguth wrote:
Lefty wrote:

Why does it disturb you? There could be a lot of reasons people leave early.......
I was wondering the same thing. Why is that "disturbing"?
Because it was a Sat night and at that point people showed they'd rather be home doing anything else besides watching Bradley Basketball...
I guess I didn't find it to be disturbing. Completely expected and understandable, but not disturbing.

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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by tribecalledquest » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:27 pm

Bravesfanpete wrote:
tribecalledquest wrote:
Bravesfanpete wrote:Agreed. Plus this coaching staff is trying to get the players to (sorry to quote Les here :D ), buy into a winning mentality that has sorely been lacking around here for almost a decade. It takes time to wash all of the low expectations out of a program that has been in such a poor state all of these years.
None of this "mentality" stuff holds any water. All players want to win. Outside of Donte Thomas every single person involved with the Bradley program is new within the last 1.5 years. What is a "winning" mentality anyway? Who had low expectations that needed washed away?
Well, some people around here got complacent when we "settled" for the CBI/CIT every year and 20 wins seasons that took 35+ games to accomplish. Fortunately those types don't post here for the most part. :D

I see your point, but again, a total rebuild is different from a more established program that can reload and not fall back that far when it happens. We are not there yet, and given two more years, I think people will be very happy with the results once we get there. Unfortunately it's going to take more time than some people want, but it should be worth it in the long haul.
I understand that. I was just talking about the mentality of the players, coaches and the "program".
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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by SFP » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:29 pm

Getting the better JUCO players right now would be very hard for BU. There are reasons that they went to JUCO to start off with and sometimes that makes it difficult for BU to bring in. I'm all for going after 4 year players for the time being until we have specific needs to fill where a JUCO or two could take us to the next level. Until then Wardle just needs to be able to recruit talent. I believe we need to look how Vilanova and even ND recruits. Not that we can bring in the same talent level but they recruit 4 year players for the most part and have been very successful with that formula.
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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by tribecalledquest » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:31 pm

SFP wrote:Getting the better JUCO players right now would be very hard for BU. There are reasons that they went to JUCO to start off with and sometimes that makes it difficult for BU to bring in. I'm all for going after 4 year players for the time being until we have specific needs to fill where a JUCO or two could take us to the next level. Until then Wardle just needs to be able to recruit talent. I believe we need to look how Vilanova and even ND recruits. Not that we can bring in the same talent level but they recruit 4 year players for the most part and have been very successful with that formula.
Do you think Tyshon Pickett would help this team?
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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by houstontxbrave » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:38 pm

Where does this thread go if they win on Wednesday?

After Evansville, lots of thinking of ways to win multiple games, lose to a good Loyola team and the ceiling fell in.

Were the 3rd youngest team in D1, with sophomores who played a lot last year and most are contributing little. There are games we will play well and many others we will be beaten and likely beaten bad.

But he has brought in a solid point guard and a serviceable back up point guard. A center with a lot of upside, a 3 in Kennell who has the makings of a solid 4 year contributor and a transfer who though not consistent better then any of the returners. There has been progress but keeping in perspective that this right now just isn't a really good overall basketball team.

And I am giving a ton of credit to Loyola, they were ready and just a lot better then us who plays essentially one soph and the rest are juniors and one senior. They might have lost at Drake, and others will do the same, but they are a solid basketball team.

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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by real fan » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:31 pm

We are one of the youngest teams by choice. I hope we will be able to build the program with freshman recruits. This has not been accomplished for a long time because we have had to fill in with JUCO players in the Versace, Molinari and Les years. Take away those JUCO players and we end up exactly where we are now, a consistent bottom dweller. We might have more wins again next season but it will only be because the opponents in the Valley will be weaker. In order for us to make a drastic move up and be able to compete against good teams we will need a huge upgrade in talent.

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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by real fan » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:36 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
SFP wrote:Getting the better JUCO players right now would be very hard for BU. There are reasons that they went to JUCO to start off with and sometimes that makes it difficult for BU to bring in. I'm all for going after 4 year players for the time being until we have specific needs to fill where a JUCO or two could take us to the next level. Until then Wardle just needs to be able to recruit talent. I believe we need to look how Vilanova and even ND recruits. Not that we can bring in the same talent level but they recruit 4 year players for the most part and have been very successful with that formula.
Do you think Tyshon Pickett would help this team?
YES, YES and YES!!!
Theron Wilson, Zack Andrews, Chris Roberts. Those 3 would give us everything we are lacking.
Thirdkill, Reese, Duhart and on and on.
Versace did not want to lose big for 2 seasons in a row and went out and found good players to fill our weaknesses.

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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by squirrel » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:19 pm

To be fair, we got to this point with JUCOs and DI transfers, too. So older/experience doesn't exactly guarantee anything either.

I think there's an illusion that JUCOs can erase or marginalize poor underclass recruiting. They can, for a couple years, but if you miss on the JUCOs/transfers and the 4-year guys, you get exactly where Jim Les left us...a steaming pile of sh-aving cream.
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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by ER3 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:34 pm

There is no fix for this other than to get better basketball players on the roster.

To say that "we are going to struggle because we are young" is a semi-valid excuse to offer up for our uneven, lackluster showings this year...but the bigger problem is that we have a lot of players on this roster that simply don't appear to be very talented or have a lot of upside. This sophomore class isn't going to magically develop into a bunch of productive Valley players simply by becoming two years older. Milos, Nate Wells, Anthony Thompson, Ka'Darryl Bell...these guys were all young BU players once, too.

I like a few of the pieces that Wardle and staff brought in this year...but we are going to need a similar 4 or 5 person class coming in next year if we expect to see any tangible progress year over year, IMO. Way, way too many roster filler types on the Hilltop right now...who (unfortunately) happen to be young.

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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by Bravesfanpete » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:29 pm

squirrel wrote:To be fair, we got to this point with JUCOs and DI transfers, too. So older/experience doesn't exactly guarantee anything either.

I think there's an illusion that JUCOs can erase or marginalize poor underclass recruiting. They can, for a couple years, but if you miss on the JUCOs/transfers and the 4-year guys, you get exactly where Jim Les left us...a steaming pile of sh-aving cream.
Yeah, this is what I was trying to explain earlier. JUCO's can be hit or miss anyway, and more often than not need at least one year of D1 experience to get acclimated to that type of competition. While some may be great players as seniors, that is only one really productive year out of most of these guys. And as you said squirrel, even if few good JUCO's won't be able to camouflage poor underclass recruiting. Without solid 4 year recruits, it's very hard to build experienced teams that can compete at the high end of Division 1 basketball, and that goes for Power 5 teams (outside of the powerhouse programs) as well as mid-majors.

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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by JMM28 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:36 pm

squirrel wrote:To be fair, we got to this point with JUCOs and DI transfers, too. So older/experience doesn't exactly guarantee anything either.

I think there's an illusion that JUCOs can erase or marginalize poor underclass recruiting. They can, for a couple years, but if you miss on the JUCOs/transfers and the 4-year guys, you get exactly where Jim Les left us...a steaming pile of sh-aving cream.

At this point I think after year 3 is the most realistic time to add a juco. In my head, which means nothing, I always see adding a juco or two when you need to go from 16 wins to 20+ wins. They should be easily identified areas where you clearly need to upgrade specific skill sets.

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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by BradleyBrave » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:55 pm

JMM28 wrote:
squirrel wrote:To be fair, we got to this point with JUCOs and DI transfers, too. So older/experience doesn't exactly guarantee anything either.

I think there's an illusion that JUCOs can erase or marginalize poor underclass recruiting. They can, for a couple years, but if you miss on the JUCOs/transfers and the 4-year guys, you get exactly where Jim Les left us...a steaming pile of sh-aving cream.

At this point I think after year 3 is the most realistic time to add a juco. In my head, which means nothing, I always see adding a juco or two when you need to go from 16 wins to 20+ wins. They should be easily identified areas where you clearly need to upgrade specific skill sets.
Mo added Marcus Pollard in Year 2. Wardle needs to add his Marcus Pollard in Year 3.
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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by ER3 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:16 pm

JMM28 wrote:
squirrel wrote:To be fair, we got to this point with JUCOs and DI transfers, too. So older/experience doesn't exactly guarantee anything either.

I think there's an illusion that JUCOs can erase or marginalize poor underclass recruiting. They can, for a couple years, but if you miss on the JUCOs/transfers and the 4-year guys, you get exactly where Jim Les left us...a steaming pile of sh-aving cream.

At this point I think after year 3 is the most realistic time to add a juco. In my head, which means nothing, I always see adding a juco or two when you need to go from 16 wins to 20+ wins. They should be easily identified areas where you clearly need to upgrade specific skill sets.
I don't necessarily disagree...but when I look at this year's team, we are sorely lacking in players that play a physical game, players that are capable of being average to above average defenders, guys that aren't afraid of contact and play with a mean streak, etc....Guys coming in next year as 18 year old freshmen just aren't likely to bring many of those qualities to the table in year 1 for them.
I can't imagine the staff wants to watch us get physically overmatched on the boards, in man-to-man defensive sets, in all phases of the game next year on a nightly basis...to give us a fighting chance to not seem like 'boys against men' in every other game next year, it might be necessary to bring in a JUCO or two to upgrade our physicality and muscle a bit.
We can certainly stay the course and wait another year before supplementing the roster with what looks to be needed going into year 4...but we have a huge absence of strength, athleticism, defensive and rebounding ability going into next year...and the bigger sophomore and junior guys we have now don't strike me as the types that are going to move the needle in those areas much next year over this year...

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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by dogsrus » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:49 pm

coach Wardell are you getting all this .... :D
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.

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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by real fan » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:23 pm

ER3 wrote:There is no fix for this other than to get better basketball players on the roster.

To say that "we are going to struggle because we are young" is a semi-valid excuse to offer up for our uneven, lackluster showings this year...but the bigger problem is that we have a lot of players on this roster that simply don't appear to be very talented or have a lot of upside. This sophomore class isn't going to magically develop into a bunch of productive Valley players simply by becoming two years older. Milos, Nate Wells, Anthony Thompson, Ka'Darryl Bell...these guys were all young BU players once, too.

I like a few of the pieces that Wardle and staff brought in this year...but we are going to need a similar 4 or 5 person class coming in next year if we expect to see any tangible progress year over year, IMO. Way, way too many roster filler types on the Hilltop right now...who (unfortunately) happen to be young.
We are not going to bring in a 4 or 5 freshman class next season. If we keep most of the sophomores next season then you might as well figure them in their senior season as BU does not get rid of players that only have one year to graduate. This would be a bad repeat of keeping players on that are not good basketball players like the ones mentioned above.
I want the best basketball players we can get and I do not care where they come from , prep school, high school or JUCO.

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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by SFP » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:36 pm

dogsrus wrote:coach Wardell are you getting all this .... :D
LOL! BTW - When are we going to get a Coach Wardle call in stream? I'd really love for him to explain to us his blueprint going forward.
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Re: Land of 10,000 coaches

Post by ER3 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:49 pm

dogsrus wrote:coach Wardell are you getting all this .... :D
W-A-R-D-L-E ;)

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