2017 BU Recruiting

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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by real fan » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:21 pm

JD wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:14 pm
real fan wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:59 pm

It has been a joke of a program for a long time. I still think a staff should be able to find good enough players for BU to be able to compete for championships. They just need to do a better job of selling the right recruits. Bradley has the resources in place to get the job done.
I do agree that we cannot bring back most of these sophomores if we expect to be much better.
But my point is, maybe no one can do this. We haven't had a coach able to do this since 1988, save one regular season title under Mo.

Heck, our best winning % by a coach since D. Versace is only 53% by Mo.
That is because Les lost one of the best players ever at BU in Granger, had he stayed there would have been at least 1 if not 2 Valley championships and tournament titles.

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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by houstontxbrave » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:25 pm

All of this is maddening to me.

Waste a scholarship on a transfer who never ever plays.

5 Sophomores who played over 4000 minutes last year and 3 never play anymore and 2 that play and are marginally contributing.

Rumblings of Wardle not being able to get players motivated or interested. Getting blown out of many conference games, and in some having sizable leads and letting teams either come back or out right win. Also Wardle trying to control the questions from the media and the radio color guy.

Even the new players who do play often have no consistency even half to half. We turn the ball over like it is on fire and other times we can go large chunks of games without scoring a field goal.

Now were talking about imploding the roster for essentially the 2nd time in 3 years. I know its year 2 of Wardle but watching him, our games and our players and I am starting to believe he is in over his head.

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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by real fan » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:40 pm

houstontxbrave wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:25 pm
All of this is maddening to me.

Waste a scholarship on a transfer who never ever plays.

5 Sophomores who played over 4000 minutes last year and 3 never play anymore and 2 that play and are marginally contributing.

Rumblings of Wardle not being able to get players motivated or interested. Getting blown out of many conference games, and in some having sizable leads and letting teams either come back or out right win. Also Wardle trying to control the questions from the media and the radio color guy.

Even the new players who do play often have no consistency even half to half. We turn the ball over like it is on fire and other times we can go large chunks of games without scoring a field goal.

Now were talking about imploding the roster for essentially the 2nd time in 3 years. I know its year 2 of Wardle but watching him, our games and our players and I am starting to believe he is in over his head.
Turning the roster over by replacing many of the sophomores is the only way to get out of this mess of a roster. These sophomores were late recruits for a reason, most of the talented ones had been picked over so we ended up with left overs.
I will judge coach after season 3 as if we are still a bad team then I will not be happy with the results. Because of the circumstances I have given him a free pass for 2 seasons. Year 3 to me is the time to prove yourself by results and winning is now the only thing that matters. No excuses.

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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by ER3 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:44 pm

JD wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:28 pm
Maybe no one is capable of getting players that are "good enough" to win at BU anymore.

Let's be honest, when is the last time BU won conference? Valley Tournament? I mean, to be brutally honest, BU is turning into the old Cubs. We haven't won the tourney since it moved to its "new" location of St. Louis.

What a joke. We are up to almost 30 years!!!!!! Every other school, except Evansville and Loyola has won in that time.
I absolutely don't believe that it is simply impossible to get players at BU anymore...but I can certainly understand why it seems that way...

But if that was the reality, and it simply cannot be fixed...then stop paying coaches $700K+ per year to coach here, get out of the Valley, get out of Carver Arena, move down into the Summit or Horizon League, pay a coach $200K per year, and try to compete at that level. It's embarrassing to continue to invest as much as we do in our program year after year and get destroyed on a nightly basis by schools that invest 1/2 to 1/3 as much in their basketball programs.

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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by squirrel » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:55 pm

ER3 wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:44 pm
JD wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:28 pm
Maybe no one is capable of getting players that are "good enough" to win at BU anymore.

Let's be honest, when is the last time BU won conference? Valley Tournament? I mean, to be brutally honest, BU is turning into the old Cubs. We haven't won the tourney since it moved to its "new" location of St. Louis.

What a joke. We are up to almost 30 years!!!!!! Every other school, except Evansville and Loyola has won in that time.
I absolutely don't believe that it is simply impossible to get players at BU anymore...but I can certainly understand why it seems that way...

But if that was the reality, and it simply cannot be fixed...then stop paying coaches $700K+ per year to coach here, get out of the Valley, get out of Carver Arena, move down into the Summit or Horizon League, pay a coach $200K per year, and try to compete at that level. It's embarrassing to continue to invest as much as we do in our program year after year and get destroyed on a nightly basis by schools that invest 1/2 to 1/3 as much in their basketball programs.
It's not impossible, but it's going to take a trail of moderate improvement and success at this point. It's not as easy as it was 20 years ago. It's not because Bradley can't win...we can, and win big again...but the rest of the world doesn't realize it, and it is going to take some convincing. That's why I'm not convinced dramatic roster turnover is the best solution at this point. I'm not opposed to it, but ONLY if we actually improve.
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by squirrel » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:01 pm

JD wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:14 pm

But my point is, maybe no one can do this. We haven't had a coach able to do this since 1988, save one regular season title under Mo.
In 1997, Molinari had recruited a future All-ACC 1st team player. He got burned when that player never showed up on campus.

Molinari's last team included a future NBA standout in Danny Granger, a future Horizon POY candidate in Joah Tucker, and a future SEC role player in Antoine Tisby.
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:05 pm

ER3 wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:44 pm
JD wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:28 pm
Maybe no one is capable of getting players that are "good enough" to win at BU anymore.

Let's be honest, when is the last time BU won conference? Valley Tournament? I mean, to be brutally honest, BU is turning into the old Cubs. We haven't won the tourney since it moved to its "new" location of St. Louis.

What a joke. We are up to almost 30 years!!!!!! Every other school, except Evansville and Loyola has won in that time.
I absolutely don't believe that it is simply impossible to get players at BU anymore...but I can certainly understand why it seems that way...

But if that was the reality, and it simply cannot be fixed...then stop paying coaches $700K+ per year to coach here, get out of the Valley, get out of Carver Arena, move down into the Summit or Horizon League, pay a coach $200K per year, and try to compete at that level. It's embarrassing to continue to invest as much as we do in our program year after year and get destroyed on a nightly basis by schools that invest 1/2 to 1/3 as much in their basketball programs.
Very well put.



My thought:

Since Bradley last won a league title, many things have happened both in the league and in the world. As was mentioned (it usually is by me), only Bradley and Evansville have not won a tournament title in St.Louis. (I give Loyola a pass a few more yrs)

To make matters worse, what was not mentioned is that EVERY league opponent (again disregarding Loyola) INCLUDING Evansville has won some form of league hardware since Bradley last won any.

Creighton - 4/8
Drake - 1/1
Evansville - 1/0
ISU - 0/2
Indiana State - 1/2
Missouri State - 1/0
Northern Iowa - 2/5
Southern Illinois - 5/1
Wichita State - 5/1

Sure, now if you look at all of these things, its quite astounding at the level of success since Bradley last won any hardware in the league....to the tune of 20 years worth of misery with 4 schools being far and away most dominant.

But not being capable?!


IF they can win 5 Arch Madness titles in Cedar Falls, 2 in Terre Haute, and 1 at Drake (in the last decade), we sure as hell ought to be able to bring one back to Peoria!!
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:09 pm

squirrel wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:01 pm

In 1997, Molinari had recruited a future All-ACC 1st team player. He got burned when that player never showed up on campus.

Molinari's last team included a future NBA standout in Danny Granger, a future Horizon POY candidate in Joah Tucker, and a future SEC role player in Antoine Tisby.
And unlike Les & the "supposed" talks with Shumpert, we actually were set to have Grundy.
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by dogsrus » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:13 pm

BU kinda reminds me of the restaurant on 150 across from pizza ranch... 20 years ago it used to be good ( Cheddars) and now nothing they try works...
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.

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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by BradleyBrave » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:21 pm

dogsrus wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:13 pm
BU kinda reminds me of the restaurant on 150 across from pizza ranch... 20 years ago it used to be good ( Cheddars) and now nothing they try works...
Location, location, location? :-(
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by real fan » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:55 pm

SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:05 pm
ER3 wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:44 pm
JD wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:28 pm
Maybe no one is capable of getting players that are "good enough" to win at BU anymore.

Let's be honest, when is the last time BU won conference? Valley Tournament? I mean, to be brutally honest, BU is turning into the old Cubs. We haven't won the tourney since it moved to its "new" location of St. Louis.

What a joke. We are up to almost 30 years!!!!!! Every other school, except Evansville and Loyola has won in that time.
I absolutely don't believe that it is simply impossible to get players at BU anymore...but I can certainly understand why it seems that way...

But if that was the reality, and it simply cannot be fixed...then stop paying coaches $700K+ per year to coach here, get out of the Valley, get out of Carver Arena, move down into the Summit or Horizon League, pay a coach $200K per year, and try to compete at that level. It's embarrassing to continue to invest as much as we do in our program year after year and get destroyed on a nightly basis by schools that invest 1/2 to 1/3 as much in their basketball programs.
Very well put.



My thought:

Since Bradley last won a league title, many things have happened both in the league and in the world. As was mentioned (it usually is by me), only Bradley and Evansville have not won a tournament title in St.Louis. (I give Loyola a pass a few more yrs)

To make matters worse, what was not mentioned is that EVERY league opponent (again disregarding Loyola) INCLUDING Evansville has won some form of league hardware since Bradley last won any.

Creighton - 4/8
Drake - 1/1
Evansville - 1/0
ISU - 0/2
Indiana State - 1/2
Missouri State - 1/0
Northern Iowa - 2/5
Southern Illinois - 5/1
Wichita State - 5/1

Sure, now if you look at all of these things, its quite astounding at the level of success since Bradley last won any hardware in the league....to the tune of 20 years worth of misery with 4 schools being far and away most dominant.

But not being capable?!


IF they can win 5 Arch Madness titles in Cedar Falls, 2 in Terre Haute, and 1 at Drake (in the last decade), we sure as hell ought to be able to bring one back to Peoria!!
I agree if all those teams can do it then we can too, the staff needs to put in a lot of time evaluating many players and find us some good talent . Bradley coaches are well paid which is why they need to bring us back a winner. I get tired of hearing so many excuses , other teams without the great resources find good players.

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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by dss03 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:06 pm

It can happen at Bradley. I did some looking at ROI years ago by comparing how much programs spend by rank within D1 and where the RPI sits, and Bradley runs way in the negative year over year. It's not getting better since last I checked, I know that much, and I don't have the stomach or heart to do the work to update.

It's not PE major. It's not private school. It's not Peoria or any of that nonsense.

That said, I don't know what it is, but it's gotta get better. :bang :bang :bang
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:28 pm

real fan wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:55 pm


I agree if all those teams can do it then we can too, the staff needs to put in a lot of time evaluating many players and find us some good talent . Bradley coaches are well paid which is why they need to bring us back a winner. I get tired of hearing so many excuses , other teams without the great resources find good players.
Just because you're well paid doesn't make you good...

Ask Joe Girardi
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by real fan » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:18 pm

SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:28 pm
real fan wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:55 pm


I agree if all those teams can do it then we can too, the staff needs to put in a lot of time evaluating many players and find us some good talent . Bradley coaches are well paid which is why they need to bring us back a winner. I get tired of hearing so many excuses , other teams without the great resources find good players.
Just because you're well paid doesn't make you good...

Ask Joe Girardi
No kidding, had G.S. still been running the show Joe would be gone.

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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by Braves4Life » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:20 am

dss03 wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:06 pm
It can happen at Bradley. I did some looking at ROI years ago by comparing how much programs spend by rank within D1 and where the RPI sits, and Bradley runs way in the negative year over year. It's not getting better since last I checked, I know that much, and I don't have the stomach or heart to do the work to update.

It's not PE major. It's not private school. It's not Peoria or any of that nonsense.

That said, I don't know what it is, but it's gotta get better. :bang :bang :bang
Bradley had routinely been in the top 3 in the Valley in spending for the basketball program with results at the bottom... I'm sure that's still the same. There really is no reason for the ROI to be so bad other than poor management of those resources from the top down. I'm hopeful that we've finally got the President, Athletic Director, and Coach to turn this thing around.
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by BradleyBrave » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:47 am

I agree. The ROI here has to be among the worst in the country. I've heard some say we need to 'spend' to be where we need to be. We have a top 2-3 MVC hoops budget. How are we not spending enough to be good? Just throwing money at problems as the solution usually doesn't work.
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by squirrel » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:05 am

Bringing things back on topic, Verbal Commits has a new name for 2019, Michael Moreno a 6-6 F out of Georgetown, Kentucky.
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by Lake Camelot » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:28 am

squirrel wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:05 am
Bringing things back on topic, Verbal Commits has a new name for 2019, Michael Moreno a 6-6 F out of Georgetown, Kentucky.
I think that happened last summer.

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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:28 am

BradleyBrave wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:47 am
I agree. The ROI here has to be among the worst in the country. I've heard some say we need to 'spend' to be where we need to be. We have a top 2-3 MVC hoops budget. How are we not spending enough to be good? Just throwing money at problems as the solution usually doesn't work.

I think I've mentioned this before and question how much worse we would be if we spent closer to the mid or bottom third of the league where we are annually finishing

No doubt the ROI the last decade is bottom quarter in d1
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by dss03 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:08 am

SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:28 am
BradleyBrave wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:47 am
I agree. The ROI here has to be among the worst in the country. I've heard some say we need to 'spend' to be where we need to be. We have a top 2-3 MVC hoops budget. How are we not spending enough to be good? Just throwing money at problems as the solution usually doesn't work.

I think I've mentioned this before and question how much worse we would be if we spent closer to the mid or bottom third of the league where we are annually finishing

No doubt the ROI the last decade is bottom quarter in d1

This is what I ran a couple years ago, comparing the rank of expenses paid on the program within D1 to the Pomeroy rank. I'm certain nothing has changed since. I'd be surprised if we weren't ranking #1 if you took the average of the last several years ranks in both sides. If not top underachiever, we're really close.


http://www.pjstarforums.com/viewtopic.p ... n#p1399095
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by squirrel » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:22 am

Lake Camelot wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:28 am
squirrel wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:05 am
Bringing things back on topic, Verbal Commits has a new name for 2019, Michael Moreno a 6-6 F out of Georgetown, Kentucky.
I think that happened last summer.
That may be. I don't follow to closely mind you. But I did search this thread for "moreno" and his name had not previously been mentioned.
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by Braves4Life » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:12 pm

dss03 wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:08 am
This is what I ran a couple years ago, comparing the rank of expenses paid on the program within D1 to the Pomeroy rank. I'm certain nothing has changed since. I'd be surprised if we weren't ranking #1 if you took the average of the last several years ranks in both sides. If not top underachiever, we're really close.


http://www.pjstarforums.com/viewtopic.p ... n#p1399095
At least our athletic department is #1 at something. :roll: Geez, we probably p1ssed away an extra $2M/year on a crappy product. Imagine how much good that money could have done for Bradley if appropriated more equitably where ROI is greatest... Business or engineering school, dorms, removing the hiring freeze, Ren Col expansion...
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by Braves4Life » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:21 pm

squirrel wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:05 am
Bringing things back on topic, Verbal Commits has a new name for 2019, Michael Moreno a 6-6 F out of Georgetown, Kentucky.
There's a lot of video on the web on this kid so he must be pretty good. He reminds me of Donte Thomas in a lot of ways. Here's the most recent I found:
Last edited by Braves4Life on Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by Braves4Life » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:23 pm

http://www.kentucky.com/sports/high-sch ... 21383.html

Fans in attendance for Scott County’s 79-63 win at Lexington Christian on Thursday night got to witness two of the best young players the state has to offer.

Michael Moreno and Kyle Rode, Kentucky’s top-ranked sophomores who currently are rated among the top 150 players nationally by Coast2CoastPreps.com... Moreno, whose 32-point, 17-rebound night propelled Scott County to its third straight win to begin the season, has recorded a double-double in all three games
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Re: 2017 BU Recruiting and beyond

Post by tribecalledquest » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:27 pm

Braves4Life wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:23 pm
http://www.kentucky.com/sports/high-sch ... 21383.html

Fans in attendance for Scott County’s 79-63 win at Lexington Christian on Thursday night got to witness two of the best young players the state has to offer.

Michael Moreno and Kyle Rode, Kentucky’s top-ranked sophomores who currently are rated among the top 150 players nationally by Coast2CoastPreps.com... Moreno, whose 32-point, 17-rebound night propelled Scott County to its third straight win to begin the season, has recorded a double-double in all three games
He won't be coming to Bradley.
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