Bradley's depth 19/20 season

BradleyHoops.com: For the civil discussion of Bradley University men's basketball
real fan
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 6628
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:23 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by real fan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:28 pm

Braves4Life wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:15 pm
SFP wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:04 pm

A few teams had lottery picks but did not do as well. Why?

In the NBA team D is what separates the average teams with the best. Those with average talent also tend to do better with a better assist to turnover ratio. BU has average talent so they need to make each and every possession count. BU needs to team rebound, play team D and not give up easy baskets to be successful.
Great point SFP. In the Valley most teams tend to have similar 2-star talent so coaching often becomes a determining factor in success. I think that's a reason why so many successful Valley coaches have gone onto have success on a bigger stage... coaches like Altman, Turgeon, Nolan Richardson, Tubby Smith, Painter, Weber, Cuonzo, Medved, Jank, and even McDermott and Marshall (taking their schools going to a bigger conference)...
We have better then ave. talent, we pretty much played Mich. St. even last season and we have added a few more talented players this year. Time will tell but I really like the talent on this team.

User avatar
SFP
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 3776
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by SFP » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:56 am

real fan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:28 pm
Braves4Life wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:15 pm
SFP wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:04 pm

A few teams had lottery picks but did not do as well. Why?

In the NBA team D is what separates the average teams with the best. Those with average talent also tend to do better with a better assist to turnover ratio. BU has average talent so they need to make each and every possession count. BU needs to team rebound, play team D and not give up easy baskets to be successful.
Great point SFP. In the Valley most teams tend to have similar 2-star talent so coaching often becomes a determining factor in success. I think that's a reason why so many successful Valley coaches have gone onto have success on a bigger stage... coaches like Altman, Turgeon, Nolan Richardson, Tubby Smith, Painter, Weber, Cuonzo, Medved, Jank, and even McDermott and Marshall (taking their schools going to a bigger conference)...
We have better then ave. talent, we pretty much played Mich. St. even last season and we have added a few more talented players this year. Time will tell but I really like the talent on this team.
LOL really? Overall we have average talent that is trending upwards. Above average would mean we have at least one future NBA player and a few others that will draw interest from European top leagues. Are we there yet? What we have is an above average coach IMO. Once he gets a starting lineup with above average talent, watch out. Tell me who from our starters do you believe is above average? I have one, probably 2. MVC is filled with average NCAA players that are coached up. How many MVC players make it to the NBA every year? How many make it to the top flight Euro leagues right out of college?
"Wardle: Thanks for calling. I appreciate it."

BigB
DieHard (50 posts)
DieHard (50 posts)
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:19 am

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by BigB » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:15 am

One former BU coach produced about one NBA/or top Euro player every year...
-two NBA players (POB, Walt)
-and multiple guys who played at top Euro spots (Cellus, Andrews, Franklin, Warren, Theron Wilson, Chris Roberts, Taylor Brown, Dyricus) plus DRuff, Boogie, Sammy & Tony Bennett and a few more that played briefly over there - plus landed one guy who is still playing there (Abell)
-plus he coached a few more that he did not recruit (Gilbert, Granger, Gillingham, Cello)

User avatar
tribecalledquest
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 21451
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:00 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by tribecalledquest » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:18 am

BigB wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:15 am
One former BU coach produced about one NBA/or top Euro player every year...
-two NBA players (POB, Walt)
-and multiple guys who played at top Euro spots (Cellus, Andrews, Franklin, Warren, Theron Wilson, Chris Roberts, Taylor Brown, Dyricus) plus DRuff, Boogie, Sammy & Tony Bennett and a few more that played briefly over there - plus landed one guy who is still playing there (Abell)
-plus he coached a few more that he did not recruit (Gilbert, Granger, Gillingham, Cello)
How bad a coach must he have been to have all that talent and still be 74-88 all time in the MVC with 4th place his best finish in nine seasons? Mercy.
"When the speech condemns a free press, you are hearing the words of a tyrant."
~Thomas Jefferson

JMM28
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 3944
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:55 am

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by JMM28 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:52 am

tribecalledquest wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:18 am
BigB wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:15 am
One former BU coach produced about one NBA/or top Euro player every year...
-two NBA players (POB, Walt)
-and multiple guys who played at top Euro spots (Cellus, Andrews, Franklin, Warren, Theron Wilson, Chris Roberts, Taylor Brown, Dyricus) plus DRuff, Boogie, Sammy & Tony Bennett and a few more that played briefly over there - plus landed one guy who is still playing there (Abell)
-plus he coached a few more that he did not recruit (Gilbert, Granger, Gillingham, Cello)
How bad a coach must he have been to have all that talent and still be 74-88 all time in the MVC with 4th place his best finish in nine seasons? Mercy.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
Braves4Life
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 9149
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:56 pm
Location: The Gate City
Contact:

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by Braves4Life » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:22 pm

BigB wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:15 am
One former BU coach produced about one NBA/or top Euro player every year...plus landed one guy who is still playing there (Abell)
Thanks BigB, I wondered what ever happened to that guy. I'd have expected a few NBA MVPs from him by now based on the hype we were fed when he jettisoned BU solely because we fired his coach.
"Once A Brave Always A Brave"

Image

User avatar
tribecalledquest
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 21451
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:00 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by tribecalledquest » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:27 pm

Braves4Life wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:22 pm
BigB wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:15 am
One former BU coach produced about one NBA/or top Euro player every year...plus landed one guy who is still playing there (Abell)
Thanks BigB, I wondered what ever happened to that guy. I'd have expected a few NBA MVPs from him by now based on the hype we were fed when he jettisoned BU solely because we fired his coach.
The Oroszlanyi Sportegylet E Lions are the top feeder team to the Golden State Warriors so he's right on the cusp.
"When the speech condemns a free press, you are hearing the words of a tyrant."
~Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
squirrel
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 31380
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 8:45 pm
Location: Peoria, IL

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by squirrel » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:48 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:27 pm

The Oroszlanyi Sportegylet E Lions
:lol:

Say that three times in a row without tripping up.

I wonder who would win a best of 7 series between them and the legendary Mail Boat Cybots.
"[. . .] and it would be foolish to gobble up sliders when there’s a steak hidden in the fridge." -Kirk Wessler

User avatar
dss03
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 5010
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:51 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by dss03 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:11 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:18 am
BigB wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:15 am
One former BU coach produced about one NBA/or top Euro player every year...
-two NBA players (POB, Walt)
-and multiple guys who played at top Euro spots (Cellus, Andrews, Franklin, Warren, Theron Wilson, Chris Roberts, Taylor Brown, Dyricus) plus DRuff, Boogie, Sammy & Tony Bennett and a few more that played briefly over there - plus landed one guy who is still playing there (Abell)
-plus he coached a few more that he did not recruit (Gilbert, Granger, Gillingham, Cello)
How bad a coach must he have been to have all that talent and still be 74-88 all time in the MVC with 4th place his best finish in nine seasons? Mercy.

Perfection.
FunchessonPopcorn - "DSS03 is fantastic!"

User avatar
SFP
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 3776
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by SFP » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:32 pm

BigB wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:15 am
One former BU coach produced about one NBA/or top Euro player every year...
-two NBA players (POB, Walt)
-and multiple guys who played at top Euro spots (Cellus, Andrews, Franklin, Warren, Theron Wilson, Chris Roberts, Taylor Brown, Dyricus) plus DRuff, Boogie, Sammy & Tony Bennett and a few more that played briefly over there - plus landed one guy who is still playing there (Abell)
-plus he coached a few more that he did not recruit (Gilbert, Granger, Gillingham, Cello)
POB barely played in the NBA and only because he was a 1st round pick. On the other side Walt should be on a team right now. Now our Euro guys. Which top team did they play on? Here's a list of the top 100 Euro teams. https://www.eurobasket.com/service/bask ... anking.asp

These were our better players the last 5 years and I still say we have average players. Average NCAA D1 player in my book is real good but they still need to be coached up to be a really good top 50 team.
"Wardle: Thanks for calling. I appreciate it."

real fan
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 6628
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:23 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by real fan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:43 pm

SFP wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:32 pm
BigB wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:15 am
One former BU coach produced about one NBA/or top Euro player every year...
-two NBA players (POB, Walt)
-and multiple guys who played at top Euro spots (Cellus, Andrews, Franklin, Warren, Theron Wilson, Chris Roberts, Taylor Brown, Dyricus) plus DRuff, Boogie, Sammy & Tony Bennett and a few more that played briefly over there - plus landed one guy who is still playing there (Abell)
-plus he coached a few more that he did not recruit (Gilbert, Granger, Gillingham, Cello)
POB barely played in the NBA and only because he was a 1st round pick. On the other side Walt should be on a team right now. Now our Euro guys. Which top team did they play on? Here's a list of the top 100 Euro teams. https://www.eurobasket.com/service/bask ... anking.asp

These were our better players the last 5 years and I still say we have average players. Average NCAA D1 player in my book is real good but they still need to be coached up to be a really good top 50 team.
You cannot say players are not very talented players just because they are not NBA players, those are elite players yet we do have very talented ones on our team. Our new point guard led his team to the JUCO national championship game two seasons ago, you think he is not very talented? Coach Wardle is a very good coach yet without talented players on his roster he would not have won the Tour. championship. Comparing good college players to NBA ones is just not a fair comparison.

User avatar
SFP
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 3776
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by SFP » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:33 pm

real fan wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:43 pm
SFP wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:32 pm
BigB wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:15 am
One former BU coach produced about one NBA/or top Euro player every year...
-two NBA players (POB, Walt)
-and multiple guys who played at top Euro spots (Cellus, Andrews, Franklin, Warren, Theron Wilson, Chris Roberts, Taylor Brown, Dyricus) plus DRuff, Boogie, Sammy & Tony Bennett and a few more that played briefly over there - plus landed one guy who is still playing there (Abell)
-plus he coached a few more that he did not recruit (Gilbert, Granger, Gillingham, Cello)
POB barely played in the NBA and only because he was a 1st round pick. On the other side Walt should be on a team right now. Now our Euro guys. Which top team did they play on? Here's a list of the top 100 Euro teams. https://www.eurobasket.com/service/bask ... anking.asp

These were our better players the last 5 years and I still say we have average players. Average NCAA D1 player in my book is real good but they still need to be coached up to be a really good top 50 team.
You cannot say players are not very talented players just because they are not NBA players, those are elite players yet we do have very talented ones on our team. Our new point guard led his team to the JUCO national championship game two seasons ago, you think he is not very talented? Coach Wardle is a very good coach yet without talented players on his roster he would not have won the Tour. championship. Comparing good college players to NBA ones is just not a fair comparison.
Did you read what I posted? I said,"Average NCAA D1 player in my book is real good." Never ever said they were not talented. Just saying a really good coach in a MVC is needed to have a chance at being successful in the NCAA. We are not going to get the All Americans. I still stand by that we have had average players for the last decade sprinkled in a few above average. We are trending up. Our record indicates as much. We've been very very average.
"Wardle: Thanks for calling. I appreciate it."

real fan
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 6628
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:23 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by real fan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:53 pm

SFP wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:33 pm
real fan wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:43 pm
SFP wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:32 pm


POB barely played in the NBA and only because he was a 1st round pick. On the other side Walt should be on a team right now. Now our Euro guys. Which top team did they play on? Here's a list of the top 100 Euro teams. https://www.eurobasket.com/service/bask ... anking.asp

These were our better players the last 5 years and I still say we have average players. Average NCAA D1 player in my book is real good but they still need to be coached up to be a really good top 50 team.
You cannot say players are not very talented players just because they are not NBA players, those are elite players yet we do have very talented ones on our team. Our new point guard led his team to the JUCO national championship game two seasons ago, you think he is not very talented? Coach Wardle is a very good coach yet without talented players on his roster he would not have won the Tour. championship. Comparing good college players to NBA ones is just not a fair comparison.
Did you read what I posted? I said,"Average NCAA D1 player in my book is real good." Never ever said they were not talented. Just saying a really good coach in a MVC is needed to have a chance at being successful in the NCAA. We are not going to get the All Americans. I still stand by that we have had average players for the last decade sprinkled in a few above average. We are trending up. Our record indicates as much. We've been very very average.
Average to me is not real good. Also we did go thru a very bad period where he had way below ave. players because of poor recruiting. Talent plus good coaching leads to success.

User avatar
tribecalledquest
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 21451
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:00 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by tribecalledquest » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:55 pm

When teams win consistently in the league in which they compete that means they have above average talent. It spans more than a week, a month or even one season.
"When the speech condemns a free press, you are hearing the words of a tyrant."
~Thomas Jefferson

real fan
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 6628
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:23 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by real fan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:18 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:55 pm
When teams win consistently in the league in which they compete that means they have above average talent. It spans more than a week, a month or even one season.
Sure happy we have the professor of psychology or just plain common sense in the house tonight :D

User avatar
tribecalledquest
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 21451
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:00 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by tribecalledquest » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:22 pm

real fan wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:18 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:55 pm
When teams win consistently in the league in which they compete that means they have above average talent. It spans more than a week, a month or even one season.
Sure happy we have the professor of psychology or just plain common sense in the house tonight :D
Don’t you have a Stephen Gabriel All American highlight package to work on? 😄
"When the speech condemns a free press, you are hearing the words of a tyrant."
~Thomas Jefferson

real fan
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 6628
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:23 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by real fan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:45 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:22 pm
real fan wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:18 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:55 pm
When teams win consistently in the league in which they compete that means they have above average talent. It spans more than a week, a month or even one season.
Sure happy we have the professor of psychology or just plain common sense in the house tonight :D
Don’t you have a Stephen Gabriel All American highlight package to work on? 😄
It should be coming out soon or it might just be later ;)

User avatar
BradleyMathGrad
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:40 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by BradleyMathGrad » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:52 am

There are (i believe) 353 Division 1 teams with 12 scholarship players for a total of 4,236 athletes. In theory, the turnover rate should be 1 out of every four years, but some people leave early and some stay for 5 (or sometimes 6) years, so for the sake of the argument, we will say that if you divide 4,236 by 4, you get 1,059 players leaving college basketball. All of the players in a perfect world would like to go to the NBA i would imagine.

Now the NBA has 60 draft picks every season. For the sake of argument, let's say that 15 of those picks (total guess) are European players and 45 are college players. That means that only 4.25% of college players are getting drafted. These players are what I would consider "elite" athletes.

Now...according to the standard bell curve, anything within one standard deviation of the mean is considered average. That number is represented by the middle 68% of a sample size. Looking at it in this perspective, that means that 720 of the 1,059 college basketball players leaving school each year are considered "average." Likewise, half of the remaining 329 players are each considered "above average" or "below" average"

That leaves us with 164 (rounded down from 164.5) above average players each year, and only 45 of which get drafted into the NBA. This tells us that 119 of the 1,059, or 11.2% of players, of the NCAA players every season are considered "above average" and do not get drafted.

I don't know if this resolves anything, but I also think that Bradley has had some pretty good talent over the years, despite not having any draft picks (excluding POB) or much success on the court...but I like doing math and thought this was interesting.
Remember that atmosphere when we played against Michigan, having a stretch of play where it actually got loud enough that we forced them to call Timeout.

Let's get back to that.

User avatar
SFP
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 3776
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by SFP » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:27 pm

BradleyMathGrad love it! In simple terms I believe realfan and I are splitting hairs. :lol:
"Wardle: Thanks for calling. I appreciate it."

User avatar
Majik45
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:00 am

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by Majik45 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:34 pm

BradleyMathGrad living up to his handle. That is a lot of nerdly math.

real fan
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 6628
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:23 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by real fan » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:48 pm

SFP wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:27 pm
BradleyMathGrad love it! In simple terms I believe realfan and I are splitting hairs. :lol:
Probably are, jeez got lost half way thru that long explanation. Must be because of my old age :cry:

User avatar
BradleyMathGrad
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Silver Poster (250 posts)
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:40 pm

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by BradleyMathGrad » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:06 pm

real fan wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:48 pm
SFP wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:27 pm
BradleyMathGrad love it! In simple terms I believe realfan and I are splitting hairs. :lol:
Probably are, jeez got lost half way thru that long explanation. Must be because of my old age :cry:
I tried to break it down as thoroughly as I could while still explaining everything...but yeah, I fully embrace the nerdyness.
Remember that atmosphere when we played against Michigan, having a stretch of play where it actually got loud enough that we forced them to call Timeout.

Let's get back to that.

User avatar
pndbaseball12
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 4999
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:15 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by pndbaseball12 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:29 pm

Would non drafted roster invitees to summer league classify as above average to you? Or would they be considered elite?
The difference between the impossible and the possible lies in a mans determination
-Tommy Lasorda

User avatar
SFP
All Universe
All Universe
Posts: 3776
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by SFP » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:01 pm

pndbaseball12 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:29 pm
Would non drafted roster invitees to summer league classify as above average to you? Or would they be considered elite?
How about potential to be elite. Case in point Walt Lemon. Coming out of BU was he an elite player? He is now no matter what designation you gave him coming out.
"Wardle: Thanks for calling. I appreciate it."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests