Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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tribecalledquest
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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BigB wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:56 am
tribecalledquest wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:18 am
How bad a coach must he have been...
As noted elsewhere, his total record in seasons that he was allowed by administration to CHOOSE HIS OWN STAFF
was a very respectable 102-71
and after rebuilding, he held his own against the rest of the MVC (40-32) until that same admin started meddling with his staff and his recruiting.
But in the seasons following, we saw exactly what he was dealing with - when the next several years after his departure, we had historic, record-breaking bad seasons and massive 50-point losses.
BU fans have suffered enough due to the stupid decisions the admin made, but if it makes you feel good, keep blaming the coach and the AD who have since shown they are proven winners and have won COY & AD of the Year awards.
Maybe Bradley shoulda hired your guy who hops from scandal to scandal, gets show-cause penalties and ruins reputations everywhere he goes.
As Bill Parcells said “you are what your record says you are.” I’m not going to relitigate stuff from ten years ago. Good grief. Move on.

The coach mentioned here eventually got fired because his record wasn’t good enough. That’s a fact. The coach following him did even worse and subsequently got fired because his record wasn’t good enough. That’s a fact. The current coach has things on an upward trajectory that we hope continues. No one said anything about the ADs. This has been a basketball and basketball coaches topic.

This isn’t the message board to talk about conspiracy theories, perceived slights and made up stories from almost a decade ago. This isn’t the InfoWars of Bradley Basketball information.

But on your very last point. Bradley actually did hire “my guy” and that is the current coach. I wanted him from the beginning and was happy as hell when he got the job. So, pardon me while I pat myself on the back and take full credit. You’re welcome Chris Reynolds.
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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Now. As it relates to the depth of the current Bradley team and not some team from eleven years ago.....

Bradley has two first team all league level guys in Brown and Childs. It also has some nice complimentary pieces. That kind of roster should and will compete for an MVC Title. I don’t care as much about depth as I do health.

Bradley has 8-9 guys that can play minutes. That’s all you need. The heavy lifting will be done by a select few.
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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Didn’t know Joanne was the president at UC Davis. 120 - 135, 0.471

MOVE ON!
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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tribecalledquest wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:45 am
Now. As it relates to the depth of the current Bradley team and not some team from eleven years ago.....

Bradley has two first team all league level guys in Brown and Childs. It also has some nice complimentary pieces. That kind of roster should and will compete for an MVC Title. I don’t care as much about depth as I do health.

Bradley has 8-9 guys that can play minutes. That’s all you need. The heavy lifting will be done by a select few.
Instead of the heavy lifting done by a select few, we would be a much more successful side if the wealth of double-digit scoring per game is shared by at least 3 players per game on consistent basis. Deep teams which cause great difficulty to their opponents have at least 3 players scoring in double digits each game. In fact when "quality future recruits" see that happening in a potential future basketball program of interest, they much prefer it over a program that mostly relies on 2 players scoring in double-digits during games. Depth means sharing the wealth of double-digit scoring per game among at least 3 players. Consistently successful teams like Wichita State and Creighton were only able to dominate the MVC via deep teams.

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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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HoustonBrave wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:00 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:45 am
Now. As it relates to the depth of the current Bradley team and not some team from eleven years ago.....

Bradley has two first team all league level guys in Brown and Childs. It also has some nice complimentary pieces. That kind of roster should and will compete for an MVC Title. I don’t care as much about depth as I do health.

Bradley has 8-9 guys that can play minutes. That’s all you need. The heavy lifting will be done by a select few.
Instead of the heavy lifting done by a select few, we would be a much more successful side if the wealth of double-digit scoring per game is shared by at least 3 players per game on consistent basis. Deep teams which cause great difficulty to their opponents have at least 3 players scoring in double digits each game. In fact when "quality future recruits" see that happening in a potential future basketball program of interest, they much prefer it over a program that mostly relies on 2 players scoring in double-digits during games. Depth means sharing the wealth of double-digit scoring per game among at least 3 players. Consistently successful teams like Wichita State and Creighton were only able to dominate the MVC via deep teams.
There are some NBA players from Creighton and Wichita who would tell you having a couple studs really helps.

Elite players win games in a sport where only five play at a time.
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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Tribe is right. Go back and look at all of the great Bradley teams of the past 40 years and you’ll see that they all had at least one elite player, usually two — JJ Anderson, Thirdkill, Hawkins, Les, Massive Mike, Anthony Parker, Dye, POB, Sommerville... and a few others that I missed.
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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Braves4Life wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:49 pm
Tribe is right. Go back and look at all of the great Bradley teams of the past 40 years and you’ll see that they all had at least one elite player, usually two — JJ Anderson, Thirdkill, Hawkins, Les, Massive Mike, Anthony Parker, Dye, POB, Sommerville... and a few others that I missed.
I'm 100% in agreement. I believe EC has the potential and we'll see if he is that elite player shortly. He has the skill and the instincts to be that player. There's a very big difference between under and upperclassmen. This is when boys become men. If DB plays within a team concept and limits his TOs we'll be really hard to beat and should be contending for the Valley title. Can we be a great team? We'll find out. I have an opinion that I'll keep to myself. I've been known to drink the kool aid in the past but find myself as I get older to try and be realistic.
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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tribecalledquest wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:38 pm
HoustonBrave wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:00 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:45 am
Now. As it relates to the depth of the current Bradley team and not some team from eleven years ago.....

Bradley has two first team all league level guys in Brown and Childs. It also has some nice complimentary pieces. That kind of roster should and will compete for an MVC Title. I don’t care as much about depth as I do health.

Bradley has 8-9 guys that can play minutes. That’s all you need. The heavy lifting will be done by a select few.
Instead of the heavy lifting done by a select few, we would be a much more successful side if the wealth of double-digit scoring per game is shared by at least 3 players per game on consistent basis. Deep teams which cause great difficulty to their opponents have at least 3 players scoring in double digits each game. In fact when "quality future recruits" see that happening in a potential future basketball program of interest, they much prefer it over a program that mostly relies on 2 players scoring in double-digits during games. Depth means sharing the wealth of double-digit scoring per game among at least 3 players. Consistently successful teams like Wichita State and Creighton were only able to dominate the MVC via deep teams.
There are some NBA players from Creighton and Wichita who would tell you having a couple studs really helps.

Elite players win games in a sport where only five play at a time.
I agree with you that having couple of super elite players is very healthy. But also having at least any 3 players score in double-digits consistently is much better than relying on the same 2 most elite players on your team each game. Depth means multiple weapons that you could hurt your opponents with depending on each game's player match-ups. For example, the team that won the NIT in 81/82 had JJ Anderson, Donald Reese, David Thirdkill, Barney Mines, Willie Scott and Voise Winters who were ALL inter-changeable double digit weapons at each game (depending on the opponent's match-up), but the first 3 players mentioned were consistently scoring in double-digits at each game. All I am sating is that we can not only depend on EC and DB to average in double-digits, we will PREFERABLY need at least ANY 3 players to show up each game and score in double-digits. Having said all that, it is expected that DB and EC will lead the scoring of the team after the first 6 or 7 games.

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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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HoustonBrave wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:53 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:38 pm
HoustonBrave wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:00 pm


Instead of the heavy lifting done by a select few, we would be a much more successful side if the wealth of double-digit scoring per game is shared by at least 3 players per game on consistent basis. Deep teams which cause great difficulty to their opponents have at least 3 players scoring in double digits each game. In fact when "quality future recruits" see that happening in a potential future basketball program of interest, they much prefer it over a program that mostly relies on 2 players scoring in double-digits during games. Depth means sharing the wealth of double-digit scoring per game among at least 3 players. Consistently successful teams like Wichita State and Creighton were only able to dominate the MVC via deep teams.
There are some NBA players from Creighton and Wichita who would tell you having a couple studs really helps.

Elite players win games in a sport where only five play at a time.
I agree with you that having couple of super elite players is very healthy. But also having at least any 3 players score in double-digits consistently is much better than relying on the same 2 most elite players on your team each game. Depth means multiple weapons that you could hurt your opponents with depending on each game's player match-ups. For example, the team that won the NIT in 81/82 had JJ Anderson, Donald Reese, David Thirdkill, Barney Mines, Willie Scott and Voise Winters who were ALL inter-changeable double digit weapons at each game (depending on the opponent's match-up), but the first 3 players mentioned were consistently scoring in double-digits at each game. All I am sating is that we can not only depend on EC and DB to average in double-digits, we will PREFERABLY need at least ANY 3 players to show up each game and score in double-digits. Having said all that, it is expected that DB and EC will lead the scoring of the team after the first 6 or 7 games.
The supporting cast is very important in making your top 2 or 3 players great as they have to be capable of passing and scoring the ball.It takes a complete team to win championships. Creighton and Wichita both had great supporting casts to go along with their super stars.

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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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real fan wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:24 pm
HoustonBrave wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:53 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:38 pm


There are some NBA players from Creighton and Wichita who would tell you having a couple studs really helps.

Elite players win games in a sport where only five play at a time.
I agree with you that having couple of super elite players is very healthy. But also having at least any 3 players score in double-digits consistently is much better than relying on the same 2 most elite players on your team each game. Depth means multiple weapons that you could hurt your opponents with depending on each game's player match-ups. For example, the team that won the NIT in 81/82 had JJ Anderson, Donald Reese, David Thirdkill, Barney Mines, Willie Scott and Voise Winters who were ALL inter-changeable double digit weapons at each game (depending on the opponent's match-up), but the first 3 players mentioned were consistently scoring in double-digits at each game. All I am sating is that we can not only depend on EC and DB to average in double-digits, we will PREFERABLY need at least ANY 3 players to show up each game and score in double-digits. Having said all that, it is expected that DB and EC will lead the scoring of the team after the first 6 or 7 games.
The supporting cast is very important in making your top 2 or 3 players great as they have to be capable of passing and scoring the ball.It takes a complete team to win championships. Creighton and Wichita both had great supporting casts to go along with their super stars.
Well said real fan!

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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by HoustonBrave »

As I said back in September, the secret to a team's success is to have at least 3 players consistently scoring in double digits. So far this season, we have accomplished exactly that, according to our stats of 2019-20 season. No wonder that we have just convincingly beaten Kansas State in Fort Myers. KS is a team ranked 33 by the nationwide Coaches Poll. BIG credit to our coaching staff and Brian Wardle who succeeded in placing BU Basketball back on the map! GO BRAVES!!!

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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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I don’t think we’re a real deep team, but that’s not really breaking news. With 9 newcomers and 2 guys sitting out I think that’s been known and accepted for a while. However I do think out of Ville, Gabriel, Thomas, and Boya at least 1 and maybe 2 will step up and become relevant bench contributors. All of them - even Ari - are still figuring out how to play at this level.

The benches shorten up during conference anyways. As long as guys are able to be properly rested in November and December only going 7 deep isn’t going to hurt you. It just leaves little cushion for injury.
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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BradleyBrave wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:32 pm
I don’t think we’re a real deep team, but that’s not really breaking news. With 9 newcomers and 2 guys sitting out I think that’s been known and accepted for a while. However I do think out of Ville, Gabriel, Thomas, and Boya at least 1 and maybe 2 will step up and become relevant bench contributors. All of them - even Ari - are still figuring out how to play at this level.

The benches shorten up during conference anyways. As long as guys are able to be properly rested in November and December only going 7 deep isn’t going to hurt you. It just leaves little cushion for injury.
7 deep is not enough , we need at least one more player to step up and contribute for this team. We have a few players with potential and hoping our last several non con games they have break out games and get the confidence they need to help their team.

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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by SFP »

real fan wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:06 pm
BradleyBrave wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:32 pm
I don’t think we’re a real deep team, but that’s not really breaking news. With 9 newcomers and 2 guys sitting out I think that’s been known and accepted for a while. However I do think out of Ville, Gabriel, Thomas, and Boya at least 1 and maybe 2 will step up and become relevant bench contributors. All of them - even Ari - are still figuring out how to play at this level.

The benches shorten up during conference anyways. As long as guys are able to be properly rested in November and December only going 7 deep isn’t going to hurt you. It just leaves little cushion for injury.
7 deep is not enough , we need at least one more player to step up and contribute for this team. We have a few players with potential and hoping our last several non con games they have break out games and get the confidence they need to help their team.
I agree. There's a drop off when those freshman step in as well. I have to believe Ville and Gabriel have the best chance of stepping up to the occasion come 2nd part of the season. Right now both are rushing the action and still thinking too much out there. Having the game come to you only comes with playing time. I still have not seen enough from Boya to think he's going to give us much during conference play.

I also am hoping that Kingsby and or Henry will be able to consistently hit the 3. We do have the best D in the conference. That alone should keep us in every game.
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by pndbaseball12 »

SFP wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:54 pm
real fan wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:06 pm
BradleyBrave wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:32 pm
I don’t think we’re a real deep team, but that’s not really breaking news. With 9 newcomers and 2 guys sitting out I think that’s been known and accepted for a while. However I do think out of Ville, Gabriel, Thomas, and Boya at least 1 and maybe 2 will step up and become relevant bench contributors. All of them - even Ari - are still figuring out how to play at this level.

The benches shorten up during conference anyways. As long as guys are able to be properly rested in November and December only going 7 deep isn’t going to hurt you. It just leaves little cushion for injury.
7 deep is not enough , we need at least one more player to step up and contribute for this team. We have a few players with potential and hoping our last several non con games they have break out games and get the confidence they need to help their team.
I agree. There's a drop off when those freshman step in as well. I have to believe Ville and Gabriel have the best chance of stepping up to the occasion come 2nd part of the season. Right now both are rushing the action and still thinking too much out there. Having the game come to you only comes with playing time. I still have not seen enough from Boya to think he's going to give us much during conference play.

I also am hoping that Kingsby and or Henry will be able to consistently hit the 3. We do have the best D in the conference. That alone should keep us in every game.
I think Thomas has been the best freshman so far personally. Then Ville then Gabriel. I think Ville just needs a few shots to drop. Almost feels like a carbon copy of Luuk. He looks to have good form, just needs a few to go sown to build his confidence. Gabriel appears, at least right now, to be in over his head or he is just pressing trying to do too much.
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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pndbaseball12 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:07 pm
SFP wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:54 pm
real fan wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:06 pm

7 deep is not enough , we need at least one more player to step up and contribute for this team. We have a few players with potential and hoping our last several non con games they have break out games and get the confidence they need to help their team.
I agree. There's a drop off when those freshman step in as well. I have to believe Ville and Gabriel have the best chance of stepping up to the occasion come 2nd part of the season. Right now both are rushing the action and still thinking too much out there. Having the game come to you only comes with playing time. I still have not seen enough from Boya to think he's going to give us much during conference play.

I also am hoping that Kingsby and or Henry will be able to consistently hit the 3. We do have the best D in the conference. That alone should keep us in every game.
I think Thomas has been the best freshman so far personally. Then Ville then Gabriel. I think Ville just needs a few shots to drop. Almost feels like a carbon copy of Luuk. He looks to have good form, just needs a few to go sown to build his confidence. Gabriel appears, at least right now, to be in over his head or he is just pressing trying to do too much.
I agree with you on Thomas. You can tell the guy has been playing with elite level guys his whole life. His game is limited offensively but he walks on the court and acts like he belongs there. He’s not a great fit for a bunch of minutes now but he’s way better than I was expecting.
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by HoustonBrave »

Boya is a D2 player or a very weak D1 program, I see him transferring at the end of the year. Ville is going through a confidence crisis, but that is not unusual for a freshman at the start of his freshman season. Thomas strength is being a great assists maker. Gabriel has great potential and that comes with playing time at D1 level.

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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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HoustonBrave wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:38 am
Boya is a D2 player or a very weak D1 program, I see him transferring at the end of the year. Ville is going through a confidence crisis, but that is not unusual for a freshman at the start of his freshman season. Thomas strength is being a great assists maker. Gabriel has great potential and that comes with playing time at D1 level.
Very good assessment , not sure on the Boya issue as the staff seems to believe he will help out as soon as he is able to get more time which should come once we return home and play against weaker competition.

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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

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real fan wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:26 am
HoustonBrave wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:38 am
Boya is a D2 player or a very weak D1 program, I see him transferring at the end of the year. Ville is going through a confidence crisis, but that is not unusual for a freshman at the start of his freshman season. Thomas strength is being a great assists maker. Gabriel has great potential and that comes with playing time at D1 level.
Very good assessment , not sure on the Boya issue as the staff seems to believe he will help out as soon as he is able to get more time which should come once we return home and play against weaker competition.
I’m not giving up on Ari yet. Remember, he came here a year early (he reclassified), and has battled injury for the last 12 months. He essentially lost his entire freshman year and a full summer of development. Right now is literally the healthiest he’s been since last September (2018). So yes, he’s behind where probably everyone (staff included) expected him to be, but I think it’s way too early to give up on him. Very premature IMO.

And let’s be realistic here - when do we need Ari the most? Next year, to step in to Koch’s role. Next year is when we will really need him to be that rim protector. This year anything he can give us as a developing bench contributor I think is a bonus.
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by Dallas Brave »

BradleyBrave wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:49 am
real fan wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:26 am
HoustonBrave wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:38 am
Boya is a D2 player or a very weak D1 program, I see him transferring at the end of the year. Ville is going through a confidence crisis, but that is not unusual for a freshman at the start of his freshman season. Thomas strength is being a great assists maker. Gabriel has great potential and that comes with playing time at D1 level.
Very good assessment , not sure on the Boya issue as the staff seems to believe he will help out as soon as he is able to get more time which should come once we return home and play against weaker competition.
I’m not giving up on Ari yet. Remember, he came here a year early (he reclassified), and has battled injury for the last 12 months. He essentially lost his entire freshman year and a full summer of development. Right now is literally the healthiest he’s been since last September (2018). So yes, he’s behind where probably everyone (staff included) expected him to be, but I think it’s way too early to give up on him. Very premature IMO.

And let’s be realistic here - when do we need Ari the most? Next year, to step in to Koch’s role. Next year is when we will really need him to be that rim protector. This year anything he can give us as a developing bench contributor I think is a bonus.
Next year (i.e., season) for sure, but I think we also need him in the rotation by time we go to St. Louis for the conference tournament this season.

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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by jim beam »

Wow, I don't know how I missed this thread. I just read the whole thing, well done. Entertaining, interesting, informative. I cant and wont really add anything of value to the overall spirit and topic of the discussion, but I will make 2 quick observations. Regardless of stats, any talk about the best centers in BU history should include Greg Smith. ( not as better than those mentioned)/ And I am not seeing what anyone else is in regards to Ville, like not at all.
Thanks J.J. for what I consider sound advice!

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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by real fan »

jim beam wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:49 am
Wow, I don't know how I missed this thread. I just read the whole thing, well done. Entertaining, interesting, informative. I cant and wont really add anything of value to the overall spirit and topic of the discussion, but I will make 2 quick observations. Regardless of stats, any talk about the best centers in BU history should include Greg Smith. ( not as better than those mentioned)/ And I am not seeing what anyone else is in regards to Ville, like not at all.
Ville has not shown it yet but I expect him to be a very good offensive player as he is a good shooter. Gabriel to me has potential but not sure he has good enough hands to become a good rebounder. Thomas handles the ball well yet offers little in scoring it.

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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by squirrel »

He is a good shooter overall, but I'm not convinced (and even his Finnish club numbers belie this [35-36% range]) that he's a good 3 point shooter at this point in his career. He's a volume shooter, though, and probably will make huge leaps. His ORtg of 61 is by far the worst on the team, and his +/- right now is -11.4. This, while he and Gabriel are both playing a shade under 30% of available minutes by position, the two main contributors after the first 6.
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by SaintLouBrave22 »

I'm not sold on Boya by any means. We have this thought that has been put out into the sphere that we want to play fast and he can't get up and down the floor to save his soul. He only becomes more useful against the grind it out teams, and unfortunately, some of those teams are too far ahead IQ wise to keep him on the floor for significant minutes --- thankfully, Bar has been put in better positions to be more successful and play more minutes this year

I'm also not sold on Gabriel mainly because of his attitude and because he just smells of a guy who won't be here come April. He is just not grasping that he absolutely can not play the way he played in HS and Prep and get away with all of the flaws --- and they just keep coming up. Flashes of very good yes, but right now he definitely is more of a detriment than anything.

Ville is just absolutely struggling with the shotmaking, but if he ever does get there, he could be a real asset because you can tell he is a team first guy.

AT as others have said is to me the best of the secondary bench group. He sees the floor real well, doesnt take plays off, and is every bit the winner he came in projected as. If there were a weakness, I'd like him to look at the rim and for his shot some on the offensive end as he seems to go head down and leave that part out of his game.
---If you need it, you don't have it. If you have it you don't need it. But if you need and you don't have it, you want it. If you don't have any of it, then you really don't know how to get more to get started then do you?---

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SFP
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Re: Bradley's depth 19/20 season

Post by SFP »

Problem is we are depending on freshman for depth. Hopefully the staff can coach those 3 up quickly. We'll need all 3 at some point during the season guaranteed. Boya will play minutes but only in 2-3 minute stretches max. The guy needs to focus on just a few areas to see the floor more and that is protect the rim, rebound, set picks without moving and run the floor.
As Desmond Tutu said: “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”

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