Wrong direction

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:53 pm

ER3 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:06 am

I realize it is incredibly difficult to go out into the recruiting pool and pick up 3, 4, 5 guys in a class that are somewhere between solid and really good Valley players...that's tough to do...especially for a team that hasn't won with any consistency in a really long time...

But if we are expecting to take a step forward next year, I just don't see how we can realistically expect to do that if we have Callum Barker, Luqman Lundy, Luuk Van Bree, Antoine Pittman, Ari Boya, and Armon Brummett taking up 6 of our 13 scholarships. Now, I know things will happen between now and the spring...Boya may not be able to reclassify, Pittman may not return, another guy may graduate early and move on, etc...but we really need an infusion of talent that can contribute next year...we can't be stuck in this same situation as we are this year where we get into February and have 7 guys that are capable of playing meaningful minutes for us...a couple of which aren't giving us much production in those minutes...

We've been lucky enough to have avoided the injury bug over the last few years...but we can't expect that to continue...We are one injury to a guard away from Luqman Lundy having to play 15-20 minutes a game right now...We need to do whatever is necessary to make sure that isn't the situation next year...
Couldn't have said it better myself...we are definitely on the same page here, and as I've said before, outside of some HUGE progress jumps by returning players, yeah, we are a middle of the pack squad at best...


And I just continue to hammer this home ---- where and how are we replacing Donte Thomas?!
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:59 pm

jim beam wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:38 am
BeBrave wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:34 am
From a certain perspective, the amount of ****ed off people on this board when we lose a couple games is a good thing. Bradley is lucky to have people still interested enough to be upset and questioning the coach and program after the last decade.

The reason the last few losses hurt so much is because we had a little streak that showed we could compete with the top of the conference. We were talking championships before the Drake loss! Take a breath. Realistically, Bradley is right where they should be. 7-7 with 2 home games and 2 road games left. Go 9-9 (with an outside shot at 10-7), stay out of Thursday and I call it a success and keep moving up. The best is yet to come.
Very fair. Everybody is different. Im not a big picture fan. Im play by play - possession by possession- half by half-game by game observer. So that makes me more seseptiple to the highs and lows.
I agree with both of you. Being a die hard, sometimes long view is good, but sometimes you do live and die on each game ---- it would be hard to find 5 guys around here that don't say that the Drake game hurt very badly....and that given what we had done up to that point that we should have also expected to win in Cedar Falls....those were two big games, especially when you consider Drake lost games @ Valpo, UNI, and Evansville and UNI had just lost a home game to Indiana State...

In short view, I look specifically at us having been playing for something meaningful going into February off a HUGE program win against Loyola and then now dropping 3 straight and being closer now to playing in than 2nd place...and also how we are squandering our last few weeks with one of the better players and kids this program has seen in YEARS in Donte Thomas, and then in long view thinking how the hell we replace him and just like ER3 how the hell we are going to not only stay competitive from game to game next season, but get BETTER in the process...

Much of it is emotion, and some of it is speculation by looking ahead, but ALL of it is done with the best intentions and wanting the program to peak --- and regardless of fandom or how you emote, I don't think anyone will disagree with the intentions.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by ICEMANBU » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:15 pm

On the short-term outlook (i.e. post-Loyola), yep, definitely going the wrong direction. I know that we had the standard back-and-forth after the Loyola game of folks that were super-mega-excited and folks that were cautiously optimistic and the "hang on, pump the brakes, fellas" folks. Have the games after Loyola been well....pretty awful? Absolutely.

That being said, on a long term comparison of this year's team/performance vs. last year's, I think that there has been upward movement and progression, so far (notwithstanding an epic collapse here with the remaining games). I would say the question that needs to be asked/answered is: Was it right to change the expectations for this team at the middle/three-quarter mark of the season after the Loyola game? Was their an opportunity to really take a huge step after Loyola? Absolutely, but I would say that after the 3 L's in pretty bad fashion, it's a missed opportunity at this point. Now, does where we're at now after that missed opportunity still match up to the expectations of the season? That's the $1,000,000 question and there's still games left to find out the answer to that question.

Time will tell, fellas. But for the love of God, at least beat ISU.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by dogsrus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:24 pm

ICEMANBU wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:15 pm
On the short-term outlook (i.e. post-Loyola), yep, definitely going the wrong direction. I know that we had the standard back-and-forth after the Loyola game of folks that were super-mega-excited and folks that were cautiously optimistic and the "hang on, pump the brakes, fellas" folks. Have the games after Loyola been well....pretty awful? Absolutely.

That being said, on a long term comparison of this year's team/performance vs. last year's, I think that there has been upward movement and progression, so far (notwithstanding an epic collapse here with the remaining games). I would say the question that needs to be asked/answered is: Was it right to change the expectations for this team at the middle/three-quarter mark of the season after the Loyola game? Was their an opportunity to really take a huge step after Loyola? Absolutely, but I would say that after the 3 L's in pretty bad fashion, it's a missed opportunity at this point. Now, does where we're at now after that missed opportunity still match up to the expectations of the season? That's the $1,000,000 question and there's still games left to find out the answer to that question.

Time will tell, fellas. But for the love of God, at least beat ISU.
Good post....

3-1 softens the blow of the 3 L's for sure and I think MOST will be somewhat happy.....2-2 puts us at .500 for the season and I think SOME can live with that .....1-3 just won't cut it and 0-4 and Debbie will star her own Forum.
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:27 pm

dogsrus wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:24 pm

3-1 softens the blow of the 3 L's for sure and I think MOST will be somewhat happy.....2-2 puts us at .500 for the season and I think SOME can live with that .....1-3 just won't cut it and 0-4 and Debbie will star her own Forum.
And this is where the Drake game really bites us right in the *** again, because if they don't fall apart and at least go 2-2, 3-1 wouldn't even be enough to get us 3rd, and most of us can agree, if you're not going to finish 3rd, you may as well finish 6th to get optimal positioning in Arch Madness, which is anywhere away from Loyola as long as possible.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by dogsrus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:27 pm

ER3 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:06 am
shaunguth wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:18 am
dss03 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:59 pm
I think Bradley fans on this board consistently overestimate how easily you can recruit big classes. They want to run off everyone who plays less than 10 mins.
Yes, I would be perfectly fine "running off everyone" (all two of them) who plays less than 10 minutes a game, both of which are upperclassmen. One has played less then 3 minutes per Valley game and the other a whopping 0.4 minutes per Valley game.
I realize it is incredibly difficult to go out into the recruiting pool and pick up 3, 4, 5 guys in a class that are somewhere between solid and really good Valley players...that's tough to do...especially for a team that hasn't won with any consistency in a really long time...

But if we are expecting to take a step forward next year, I just don't see how we can realistically expect to do that if we have Callum Barker, Luqman Lundy, Luuk Van Bree, Antoine Pittman, Ari Boya, and Armon Brummett taking up 6 of our 13 scholarships. Now, I know things will happen between now and the spring...Boya may not be able to reclassify, Pittman may not return, another guy may graduate early and move on, etc...but we really need an infusion of talent that can contribute next year...we can't be stuck in this same situation as we are this year where we get into February and have 7 guys that are capable of playing meaningful minutes for us...a couple of which aren't giving us much production in those minutes...

We've been lucky enough to have avoided the injury bug over the last few years...but we can't expect that to continue...We are one injury to a guard away from Luqman Lundy having to play 15-20 minutes a game right now...We need to do whatever is necessary to make sure that isn't the situation next year...
Is it " fair " to put Boya/Brummert on that list? What if ONE of them ends up a starter. Maybe you know more about em then others but until we see them....????? Would you have had Childs/Stip on the list last year?
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:30 pm

dogsrus wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:27 pm

Is it " fair " to put Boya/Brummert on that list? What if ONE of them ends up a starter. Maybe you know more about em then others but until we see them....????? Would you have had Childs/Stip on the list last year?
I had Childs, I did not have Stip, but I also had the luxury of being able to see both play before heading to Bradley and how they may contribute...

I always thought Childs was a steal...sometimes you get them right.


I can't say I've seen much of Boya, and I like what I have seen thus far from Brummett, but not enough to assume he's going to just come right in and take the Valley by storm.


Usually, more times than not in our league, if you want a Guard that can and is going to do that, its usually found via the JuCo route. Freshman Guards in our league don't tend to have a great track record from the jump.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by dogsrus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:45 pm

SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:30 pm
dogsrus wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:27 pm

Is it " fair " to put Boya/Brummert on that list? What if ONE of them ends up a starter. Maybe you know more about em then others but until we see them....????? Would you have had Childs/Stip on the list last year?
I had Childs, I did not have Stip, but I also had the luxury of being able to see both play before heading to Bradley and how they may contribute...

I always thought Childs was a steal...sometimes you get them right.


I can't say I've seen much of Boya, and I like what I have seen thus far from Brummett, but not enough to assume he's going to just come right in and take the Valley by storm.


Usually, more times than not in our league, if you want a Guard that can and is going to do that, its usually found via the JuCo route. Freshman Guards in our league don't tend to have a great track record from the jump.
I get what he was saying.....and he just doesn't see either of those guys contributing right away.....I guess my hope is that they are at least better then several guys ahead of them. Boya has to be better than Koch and Brummert needs to drive Kennel/Jaydon to the bench or at LEAST take minutes away.
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:54 pm

dogsrus wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:45 pm

I get what he was saying.....and he just doesn't see either of those guys contributing right away.....I guess my hope is that they are at least better then several guys ahead of them. Boya has to be better than Koch and Brummert needs to drive Kennel/Jaydon to the bench or at LEAST take minutes away.
Again, my hope is that Kennell (or even Hodgson) has some sort of epiphany and we get a Crouch type year from one of them next year....that would be something we desperately need given our current makeup...

I just wonder if thats me selling just how good of a player Crouch became short in using that comp.


As for Boya...I have heard so many different things about the type of player he is and how far along he is and his ceiling and what not and I just hope to God he isn't another Bar where we are sitting here 2 more years in and still concerned over what type of player he will become because I feel like we are far enough down the road here, but nowhere near competitive enough to take a shot in the dark that some guy "may" pan out.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by bigdaddystuck » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:06 pm

Just my opinion, but I don't think there have been that many dominant big men in the valley as freshmen. Many of the dominate ones over the years have taken 2 or 3 years to develop into that. Every once in awhile there is one that jumps right in but I am guessing more times then not that it takes a few seasons to get there.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by dogsrus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:22 pm

bigdaddystuck wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:06 pm
Just my opinion, but I don't think there have been that many dominant big men in the valley as freshmen. Many of the dominate ones over the years have taken 2 or 3 years to develop into that. Every once in awhile there is one that jumps right in but I am guessing more times then not that it takes a few seasons to get there.
WSU could buy.... uh er get em...
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by dogsrus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:23 pm

bigdaddystuck wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:06 pm
Just my opinion, but I don't think there have been that many dominant big men in the valley as freshmen. Many of the dominate ones over the years have taken 2 or 3 years to develop into that. Every once in awhile there is one that jumps right in but I am guessing more times then not that it takes a few seasons to get there.
And we don’t need dominant as a freshman big.... give me. 7’1” Child’s and id be happy :D
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by ER3 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:36 pm

dogsrus wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:27 pm
ER3 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:06 am
shaunguth wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:18 am


Yes, I would be perfectly fine "running off everyone" (all two of them) who plays less than 10 minutes a game, both of which are upperclassmen. One has played less then 3 minutes per Valley game and the other a whopping 0.4 minutes per Valley game.
I realize it is incredibly difficult to go out into the recruiting pool and pick up 3, 4, 5 guys in a class that are somewhere between solid and really good Valley players...that's tough to do...especially for a team that hasn't won with any consistency in a really long time...

But if we are expecting to take a step forward next year, I just don't see how we can realistically expect to do that if we have Callum Barker, Luqman Lundy, Luuk Van Bree, Antoine Pittman, Ari Boya, and Armon Brummett taking up 6 of our 13 scholarships. Now, I know things will happen between now and the spring...Boya may not be able to reclassify, Pittman may not return, another guy may graduate early and move on, etc...but we really need an infusion of talent that can contribute next year...we can't be stuck in this same situation as we are this year where we get into February and have 7 guys that are capable of playing meaningful minutes for us...a couple of which aren't giving us much production in those minutes...

We've been lucky enough to have avoided the injury bug over the last few years...but we can't expect that to continue...We are one injury to a guard away from Luqman Lundy having to play 15-20 minutes a game right now...We need to do whatever is necessary to make sure that isn't the situation next year...
Is it " fair " to put Boya/Brummert on that list? What if ONE of them ends up a starter. Maybe you know more about em then others but until we see them....????? Would you have had Childs/Stip on the list last year?
I'm not knocking their long-term potential by putting them in the "minimal contribution" portion of the bench next year...I like the upside that both of them appear to have...I just think they both would be considered really raw recruits...and projecting them to play meaningful minutes as freshmen on a team that we would all like to think should be shooting for a top 3 Valley finish next year seems to be a bit of a stretch....Boya, because he hasn't been playing the game long and Brummett, because it seems he has had close to zero actual basketball coaching in his lifetime.

I've never watched them play, so obviously I could be completely wrong on this one...maybe Boya comes in and makes it clear from day 1 that he has a better combo of skill and athleticism than we imagined....and maybe Brummett is a really quick study and his level of athleticism gives him the ability to just find ways to make plays offensively and to be a plus defender right out of the gate...That would be great...I just think the odds aren't great that these 'types' of freshmen (raw, limited knowledge of basketball concepts/structure/systems/etc) would be the ones to expect to come in and get rotation minutes right away as first year players here (especially if we are truly going to be a top 3 or 4 Valley team next season...)

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by real fan » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:44 pm

SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:53 pm
ER3 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:06 am

I realize it is incredibly difficult to go out into the recruiting pool and pick up 3, 4, 5 guys in a class that are somewhere between solid and really good Valley players...that's tough to do...especially for a team that hasn't won with any consistency in a really long time...

But if we are expecting to take a step forward next year, I just don't see how we can realistically expect to do that if we have Callum Barker, Luqman Lundy, Luuk Van Bree, Antoine Pittman, Ari Boya, and Armon Brummett taking up 6 of our 13 scholarships. Now, I know things will happen between now and the spring...Boya may not be able to reclassify, Pittman may not return, another guy may graduate early and move on, etc...but we really need an infusion of talent that can contribute next year...we can't be stuck in this same situation as we are this year where we get into February and have 7 guys that are capable of playing meaningful minutes for us...a couple of which aren't giving us much production in those minutes...

We've been lucky enough to have avoided the injury bug over the last few years...but we can't expect that to continue...We are one injury to a guard away from Luqman Lundy having to play 15-20 minutes a game right now...We need to do whatever is necessary to make sure that isn't the situation next year...
Couldn't have said it better myself...we are definitely on the same page here, and as I've said before, outside of some HUGE progress jumps by returning players, yeah, we are a middle of the pack squad at best...


And I just continue to hammer this home ---- where and how are we replacing Donte Thomas?!
I am totally with you guys on this matter. Very disappointing about us going forward when you look at next seasons roster and think how we appear to look closer to the bottom then the top in season 4.

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by shaunguth » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:45 pm

dss03 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:05 am
shaunguth wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:18 am
dss03 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:59 pm
I think Bradley fans on this board consistently overestimate how easily you can recruit big classes. They want to run off everyone who plays less than 10 mins.
Yes, I would be perfectly fine "running off everyone" (all two of them) who plays less than 10 minutes a game, both of which are upperclassmen. One has played less then 3 minutes per Valley game and the other a whopping 0.4 minutes per Valley game.
Yes, poorly stated there. Wardle seems to value continuity as much as possible, which is a good thing. I feel there has been too much instability, recruiting big classes is tough, and if he is getting 2 or 3 quality recruits that will stay each class he’s doing well, and if he gets more than 3 he’s doing great. Do you agree?
Absolutely.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:11 pm

dogsrus wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:23 pm
bigdaddystuck wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:06 pm
Just my opinion, but I don't think there have been that many dominant big men in the valley as freshmen. Many of the dominate ones over the years have taken 2 or 3 years to develop into that. Every once in awhile there is one that jumps right in but I am guessing more times then not that it takes a few seasons to get there.
And we don’t need dominant as a freshman big.... give me. 7’1” Child’s and id be happy :D
Just because he isn't playing the 5 and isn't 7'1" doesn't make Childs not a big...


Again, I keep pounding this home ---- some of the best league big men in the last 20 years were 6'6" - 6'8"


While Krutwig is 6'9" 260 and Murphy is listed at 6'7" 275, and both Koch and Pippen are listed 6'10", there are plenty of quality bigs in our league that aren't that.

(Listed heights/weights...you decide the legitimacy)

Jackson - 6'5" 230
Fayne - 6'8" 205
McGlynn - 6'8" 220
Johnson - 6'9" 215
Carlson - 6'7" 220
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:14 pm

ER3 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:36 pm


I'm not knocking their long-term potential by putting them in the "minimal contribution" portion of the bench next year...I like the upside that both of them appear to have...I just think they both would be considered really raw recruits...and projecting them to play meaningful minutes as freshmen on a team that we would all like to think should be shooting for a top 3 Valley finish next year seems to be a bit of a stretch....Boya, because he hasn't been playing the game long and Brummett, because it seems he has had close to zero actual basketball coaching in his lifetime.

I've never watched them play, so obviously I could be completely wrong on this one...maybe Boya comes in and makes it clear from day 1 that he has a better combo of skill and athleticism than we imagined....and maybe Brummett is a really quick study and his level of athleticism gives him the ability to just find ways to make plays offensively and to be a plus defender right out of the gate...That would be great...I just think the odds aren't great that these 'types' of freshmen (raw, limited knowledge of basketball concepts/structure/systems/etc) would be the ones to expect to come in and get rotation minutes right away as first year players here (especially if we are truly going to be a top 3 or 4 Valley team next season...)
Again, unsure about Boya, but I've been told by a couple who watch more basketball in the Champbana/Spfld/Decatur area than most have seen in their lifetimes that Brummett is a Rice type of recruit ---- bulldog mentality, currently more of a slasher, but could be a complete player with the right coaching and development arc.

I like the sound of that...the question is, do we really have the ability to get these types at this point and make it meaningful for not only them, but the overall scope of where the program will be and should be in a couple years?
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by real fan » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:54 pm

SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:14 pm
ER3 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:36 pm


I'm not knocking their long-term potential by putting them in the "minimal contribution" portion of the bench next year...I like the upside that both of them appear to have...I just think they both would be considered really raw recruits...and projecting them to play meaningful minutes as freshmen on a team that we would all like to think should be shooting for a top 3 Valley finish next year seems to be a bit of a stretch....Boya, because he hasn't been playing the game long and Brummett, because it seems he has had close to zero actual basketball coaching in his lifetime.

I've never watched them play, so obviously I could be completely wrong on this one...maybe Boya comes in and makes it clear from day 1 that he has a better combo of skill and athleticism than we imagined....and maybe Brummett is a really quick study and his level of athleticism gives him the ability to just find ways to make plays offensively and to be a plus defender right out of the gate...That would be great...I just think the odds aren't great that these 'types' of freshmen (raw, limited knowledge of basketball concepts/structure/systems/etc) would be the ones to expect to come in and get rotation minutes right away as first year players here (especially if we are truly going to be a top 3 or 4 Valley team next season...)
Again, unsure about Boya, but I've been told by a couple who watch more basketball in the Champbana/Spfld/Decatur area than most have seen in their lifetimes that Brummett is a Rice type of recruit ---- bulldog mentality, currently more of a slasher, but could be a complete player with the right coaching and development arc.

I like the sound of that...the question is, do we really have the ability to get these types at this point and make it meaningful for not only them, but the overall scope of where the program will be and should be in a couple years?
Brummett reminds me a lot like Rice, just hope he can produce similar results. I was told Boya is more skilled right now then Bar, from what I was told at our last home game it will just about be impossible for him to be here next season.

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by SaintLouBrave22 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:03 pm

real fan wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:54 pm

Brummett reminds me a lot like Rice, just hope he can produce similar results. I was told Boya is more skilled right now then Bar, from what I was told at our last home game it will just about be impossible for him to be here next season.
From what I have gathered, there is a better chance Boya never puts on a Bradley jersey as there is him being enrolled on campus for next season.
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squirrel
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by squirrel » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:32 pm

real fan wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:44 pm
SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:53 pm
ER3 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:06 am

I realize it is incredibly difficult to go out into the recruiting pool and pick up 3, 4, 5 guys in a class that are somewhere between solid and really good Valley players...that's tough to do...especially for a team that hasn't won with any consistency in a really long time...

But if we are expecting to take a step forward next year, I just don't see how we can realistically expect to do that if we have Callum Barker, Luqman Lundy, Luuk Van Bree, Antoine Pittman, Ari Boya, and Armon Brummett taking up 6 of our 13 scholarships. Now, I know things will happen between now and the spring...Boya may not be able to reclassify, Pittman may not return, another guy may graduate early and move on, etc...but we really need an infusion of talent that can contribute next year...we can't be stuck in this same situation as we are this year where we get into February and have 7 guys that are capable of playing meaningful minutes for us...a couple of which aren't giving us much production in those minutes...

We've been lucky enough to have avoided the injury bug over the last few years...but we can't expect that to continue...We are one injury to a guard away from Luqman Lundy having to play 15-20 minutes a game right now...We need to do whatever is necessary to make sure that isn't the situation next year...
Couldn't have said it better myself...we are definitely on the same page here, and as I've said before, outside of some HUGE progress jumps by returning players, yeah, we are a middle of the pack squad at best...


And I just continue to hammer this home ---- where and how are we replacing Donte Thomas?!
I am totally with you guys on this matter. Very disappointing about us going forward when you look at next seasons roster and think how we appear to look closer to the bottom then the top in season 4.
OK, Einstein: the 13 names that will be on scholarship next year. Since you have it, enlighten us to your wisdom.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by dogsrus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:46 pm

ER3 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:36 pm
dogsrus wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:27 pm
ER3 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:06 am

I realize it is incredibly difficult to go out into the recruiting pool and pick up 3, 4, 5 guys in a class that are somewhere between solid and really good Valley players...that's tough to do...especially for a team that hasn't won with any consistency in a really long time...

But if we are expecting to take a step forward next year, I just don't see how we can realistically expect to do that if we have Callum Barker, Luqman Lundy, Luuk Van Bree, Antoine Pittman, Ari Boya, and Armon Brummett taking up 6 of our 13 scholarships. Now, I know things will happen between now and the spring...Boya may not be able to reclassify, Pittman may not return, another guy may graduate early and move on, etc...but we really need an infusion of talent that can contribute next year...we can't be stuck in this same situation as we are this year where we get into February and have 7 guys that are capable of playing meaningful minutes for us...a couple of which aren't giving us much production in those minutes...

We've been lucky enough to have avoided the injury bug over the last few years...but we can't expect that to continue...We are one injury to a guard away from Luqman Lundy having to play 15-20 minutes a game right now...We need to do whatever is necessary to make sure that isn't the situation next year...
Is it " fair " to put Boya/Brummert on that list? What if ONE of them ends up a starter. Maybe you know more about em then others but until we see them....????? Would you have had Childs/Stip on the list last year?
I'm not knocking their long-term potential by putting them in the "minimal contribution" portion of the bench next year...I like the upside that both of them appear to have...I just think they both would be considered really raw recruits...and projecting them to play meaningful minutes as freshmen on a team that we would all like to think should be shooting for a top 3 Valley finish next year seems to be a bit of a stretch....Boya, because he hasn't been playing the game long and Brummett, because it seems he has had close to zero actual basketball coaching in his lifetime.

I've never watched them play, so obviously I could be completely wrong on this one...maybe Boya comes in and makes it clear from day 1 that he has a better combo of skill and athleticism than we imagined....and maybe Brummett is a really quick study and his level of athleticism gives him the ability to just find ways to make plays offensively and to be a plus defender right out of the gate...That would be great...I just think the odds aren't great that these 'types' of freshmen (raw, limited knowledge of basketball concepts/structure/systems/etc) would be the ones to expect to come in and get rotation minutes right away as first year players here (especially if we are truly going to be a top 3 or 4 Valley team next season...)
Yeah i got what you meant but thanks for the explanation.... i almost deleted post because i understood.

This is probably how it’s going to be since he built it from scratch.... we MAY get lucky and find a sleeper ( AP ) type but when was the last time BU ever got an immediate impact guy....??? We have to build a solid base over 3-4-5 years...we really aren’t to far off IMO.

Had we beat DU at home and UNI on the road ... sprinkle in beating DU at there place and boom.....

Next year those type of games gotta be W’s....
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by shaunguth » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:17 pm

squirrel wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:32 pm
real fan wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:44 pm
SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:53 pm


Couldn't have said it better myself...we are definitely on the same page here, and as I've said before, outside of some HUGE progress jumps by returning players, yeah, we are a middle of the pack squad at best...


And I just continue to hammer this home ---- where and how are we replacing Donte Thomas?!
I am totally with you guys on this matter. Very disappointing about us going forward when you look at next seasons roster and think how we appear to look closer to the bottom then the top in season 4.
OK, Einstein: the 13 names that will be on scholarship next year. Since you have it, enlighten us to your wisdom.
Right. I think I'll wait until NEXT season to see what the roster looks like and what the other rosters look like before penciling us in for the bottom of the league. We've already been told that's what we're looking at this season and there are STILL games to be played.
"There's more to the game than shooting. There's fundamentals and defense."

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by dogsrus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:46 pm

SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:11 pm
dogsrus wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:23 pm
bigdaddystuck wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:06 pm
Just my opinion, but I don't think there have been that many dominant big men in the valley as freshmen. Many of the dominate ones over the years have taken 2 or 3 years to develop into that. Every once in awhile there is one that jumps right in but I am guessing more times then not that it takes a few seasons to get there.
And we don’t need dominant as a freshman big.... give me. 7’1” Child’s and id be happy :D
Just because he isn't playing the 5 and isn't 7'1" doesn't make Childs not a big...


Again, I keep pounding this home ---- some of the best league big men in the last 20 years were 6'6" - 6'8"


While Krutwig is 6'9" 260 and Murphy is listed at 6'7" 275, and both Koch and Pippen are listed 6'10", there are plenty of quality bigs in our league that aren't that.

(Listed heights/weights...you decide the legitimacy)

Jackson - 6'5" 230
Fayne - 6'8" 205
McGlynn - 6'8" 220
Johnson - 6'9" 215
Carlson - 6'7" 220
Don’t think you grasped what i was saying... if Boya is 7’1” and has a Child’s like freshman year i’d be happy. That’s all....
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by pndbaseball12 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:55 am

SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:11 pm
dogsrus wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:23 pm
bigdaddystuck wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:06 pm
Just my opinion, but I don't think there have been that many dominant big men in the valley as freshmen. Many of the dominate ones over the years have taken 2 or 3 years to develop into that. Every once in awhile there is one that jumps right in but I am guessing more times then not that it takes a few seasons to get there.
And we don’t need dominant as a freshman big.... give me. 7’1” Child’s and id be happy :D
Just because he isn't playing the 5 and isn't 7'1" doesn't make Childs not a big...


Again, I keep pounding this home ---- some of the best league big men in the last 20 years were 6'6" - 6'8"


While Krutwig is 6'9" 260 and Murphy is listed at 6'7" 275, and both Koch and Pippen are listed 6'10", there are plenty of quality bigs in our league that aren't that.

(Listed heights/weights...you decide the legitimacy)

Jackson - 6'5" 230
Fayne - 6'8" 205
McGlynn - 6'8" 220
Johnson - 6'9" 215
Carlson - 6'7" 220
#1 if Childs was 6’9” or taller he wouldn’t be at BU.
#2 to drive home bigdaddystuck’s point above about bigs not being dominant early, the list of bigs that SLB provided:

Krautwig - freshman(I’d still take Childs over him)
Murphy - Senior
Jackson - Senior
Fayne - Junior
McGlynn - Senior
Johnson - Senior
Carlson - Redshirt senior
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by tribecalledquest » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:09 am

pndbaseball12 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:55 am
SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:11 pm
dogsrus wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:23 pm


And we don’t need dominant as a freshman big.... give me. 7’1” Child’s and id be happy :D
Just because he isn't playing the 5 and isn't 7'1" doesn't make Childs not a big...


Again, I keep pounding this home ---- some of the best league big men in the last 20 years were 6'6" - 6'8"


While Krutwig is 6'9" 260 and Murphy is listed at 6'7" 275, and both Koch and Pippen are listed 6'10", there are plenty of quality bigs in our league that aren't that.

(Listed heights/weights...you decide the legitimacy)

Jackson - 6'5" 230
Fayne - 6'8" 205
McGlynn - 6'8" 220
Johnson - 6'9" 215
Carlson - 6'7" 220
#1 if Childs was 6’9” or taller he wouldn’t be at BU.
#2 to drive home bigdaddystuck’s point above about bigs not being dominant early, the list of bigs that SLB provided:

Krautwig - freshman(I’d still take Childs over him)
Murphy - Senior
Jackson - Senior
Fayne - Junior
McGlynn - Senior
Johnson - Senior
Carlson - Redshirt senior
Exactly. If there are big men coming into this league and getting 10+ and 7+ off the bat then those teams are lucky to have them.
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