30 for 30: Catching Hell

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30 for 30: Catching Hell

Post by pndbaseball12 »

The 30 for 30 series debuts a new episode tonight about the Steve Bartman incident in the 2003 NLCS.

I am very curious to see how it is portrayed. Do they make him look like the scapegoat, or do they put the blame on the actual culprits(Gonzalez, Baker, etc..)?

Should be an interesting show.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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One thing I did read online today is that Bartman declined to be interviewed for the documentary.

Since we're on the topic of the 30 for 30 documentaries I was wondering what my fellow posters favorite 30 for 30 documentaries have been so far?
Last edited by Bluejaygrad03 on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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Bluejaygrad03 wrote:One thing I did read online today is that Bartman declined to be interviewed for the documentary.

Bartman has NEVER (to my knowledge) done any interviews regarding this.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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salz4life wrote:
Bluejaygrad03 wrote:One thing I did read online today is that Bartman declined to be interviewed for the documentary.

Bartman has NEVER (to my knowledge) done any interviews regarding this.
You are correct salz. Here's a story regarding Bartman in the time since from the Tribune: http://www.chicagotribune.com/site/news ... 3981.story
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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salz4life wrote:
Bluejaygrad03 wrote:One thing I did read online today is that Bartman declined to be interviewed for the documentary.

Bartman has NEVER (to my knowledge) done any interviews regarding this.
I actually read an article this morning confirming that he didn't. Obviously, there will be quite a bit of artistic license.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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Bluejaygrad03 wrote: Since we're on the topic of the 30 for 30 documentaries I was wondering what my fellow posters favorite 30 for 30 documentaries have been so far?
I have really liked them. I have only seen a few but "The Two Escobars" was one of the best film pieces I have ever seen.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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pndbaseball12 wrote:
Bluejaygrad03 wrote: Since we're on the topic of the 30 for 30 documentaries I was wondering what my fellow posters favorite 30 for 30 documentaries have been so far?
I have really liked them. I have only seen a few but "The Two Escobars" was one of the best film pieces I have ever seen.
"Pony Excess" was a good one too. "The Two Escobars" was amazing. The "June 17, 1994" one was interesting...it was basically a collage of incidents across the world of sports that day, which included Arnold Palmer's last US Open, the World Cup, Griffey Jr and the OJ chase among others.

I also enjoyed "Without Bias", "Small Potatoes" (USFL), and the one on the Baltimore Colts marching band. The one's I've seen have been very good.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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Bluejaygrad03 wrote:
salz4life wrote:
Bluejaygrad03 wrote:One thing I did read online today is that Bartman declined to be interviewed for the documentary.

Bartman has NEVER (to my knowledge) done any interviews regarding this.
You are correct salz. Here's a story regarding Bartman in the time since from the Tribune: http://www.chicagotribune.com/site/news ... 3981.story
What a piece of junk...

From the article:
...Bartman unwillingly entered Cubs folklore...
No, he's the dummy that reached for a potentially in play ball. Fans who do that irritate me. They are spectators, not participants. And please understand that is independent from whether or not I think Alou had an actual play on the ball. I say that for all instances. On top of fans plunging out of the stands and sometimes to their deaths, I actually think MLB should clear out the first two rows.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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squirrel wrote: No, he's the dummy that reached for a potentially in play ball. Fans who do that irritate me. They are spectators, not participants. And please understand that is independent from whether or not I think Alou had an actual play on the ball. I say that for all instances. On top of fans plunging out of the stands and sometimes to their deaths, I actually think MLB should clear out the first two rows.
Squirrel...that ball wasn't in play.

So if you were sitting there and a ball came right to you you would just move out of the way? Bartman did what almost every human being in existence would have done. He was one of many people trying to catch that ball. It was like he jumped over three rows and dove onto the field. This Bartman infatuation is ridiculous.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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tribecalledquest wrote:
squirrel wrote: No, he's the dummy that reached for a potentially in play ball. Fans who do that irritate me. They are spectators, not participants. And please understand that is independent from whether or not I think Alou had an actual play on the ball. I say that for all instances. On top of fans plunging out of the stands and sometimes to their deaths, I actually think MLB should clear out the first two rows.
Squirrel...that ball wasn't in play.

So if you were sitting there and a ball came right to you you would just move out of the way? Bartman did what almost every human being in existence would have done. He was one of many people trying to catch that ball. It was like he jumped over three rows and dove onto the field. This Bartman infatuation is ridiculous.
Please see:
And please understand that is independent from whether or not I think Alou had an actual play on the ball.
I never gave any indication it was. I only said it was "potentially" in play. I don't really know, and really you don't, either. But what I do know Bartman's actions were stupid. The only person who probably does know is Alou, because he was the one that did not have the opportunity to make the play.
This Bartman infatuation is ridiculous.
Agreed. And I don't agree with your statement "what almost every human being in existence would have done" simply because there is no real way to measure or quantify that.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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pndbaseball12 wrote:
Bluejaygrad03 wrote: Since we're on the topic of the 30 for 30 documentaries I was wondering what my fellow posters favorite 30 for 30 documentaries have been so far?
I have really liked them. I have only seen a few but "The Two Escobars" was one of the best film pieces I have ever seen.

I bought the Blu Ray set of the first 30 films. I haven't gotten through them all, but the ones I have seen have all been well made.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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tribecalledquest wrote:
squirrel wrote: No, he's the dummy that reached for a potentially in play ball. Fans who do that irritate me. They are spectators, not participants. And please understand that is independent from whether or not I think Alou had an actual play on the ball. I say that for all instances. On top of fans plunging out of the stands and sometimes to their deaths, I actually think MLB should clear out the first two rows.
Squirrel...that ball wasn't in play.

So if you were sitting there and a ball came right to you you would just move out of the way? Bartman did what almost every human being in existence would have done. He was one of many people trying to catch that ball. It was like he jumped over three rows and dove onto the field. This Bartman infatuation is ridiculous.

I know I wouldn't have gone after the ball, but you can't account for what the other people around you do.

I agree the infatuation with Bartman is nuts.... especially 8 years later. I get the meatheads at the game being upset (although throwing stuff at him was ridiculous) and even I was upset following the play. But, when Prior loses his composure afterwards and Alex Gonzalez boots a tailor-made double play ball that would've gotten the Cubs out of the inning with a 3-1 lead...... I'm not sure why anyone would blame Bartman for anything other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If I saw him, I'd shake his hand and apologize to him for the idiots.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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pndbaseball12 wrote:
Bluejaygrad03 wrote: Since we're on the topic of the 30 for 30 documentaries I was wondering what my fellow posters favorite 30 for 30 documentaries have been so far?
I have really liked them. I have only seen a few but "The Two Escobars" was one of the best film pieces I have ever seen.
squirrel wrote:
pndbaseball12 wrote:
Bluejaygrad03 wrote: Since we're on the topic of the 30 for 30 documentaries I was wondering what my fellow posters favorite 30 for 30 documentaries have been so far?
I have really liked them. I have only seen a few but "The Two Escobars" was one of the best film pieces I have ever seen.
"Pony Excess" was a good one too. "The Two Escobars" was amazing. The "June 17, 1994" one was interesting...it was basically a collage of incidents across the world of sports that day, which included Arnold Palmer's last US Open, the World Cup, Griffey Jr and the OJ chase among others.

I also enjoyed "Without Bias", "Small Potatoes" (USFL), and the one on the Baltimore Colts marching band. The one's I've seen have been very good.
Yeah. All of the ones you guys have mentioned are ones that I have seen and liked. Of those listed, I think the only ones I haven't seen all the way through is the Baltimore Colts marching band one and the without bias documentary.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

Post by nemobrave »

Pony Excess and the Marcus DuPree segments were outstanding.

Bartman gets blamed for Moises Alou's half-interested attempt at catching the ball in question and Alex Gonzalez butchering a routine DP ball had a lot more to do with what happened to the Cubs that night.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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A lot on Buckner in the first 20 minutes. Although that ticks me off too. Buckner gets distorted as the only failure of 1986. You can't also talk about that without Donnie Moore if you are going to use that as a setup.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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Alex Gonzalez boots a tailor-made double play ball that would've gotten the Cubs out of the inning with a 3-1 lead
That was the play. I can still see it as if it was yesterday.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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Wow.... this d*uchebag Sales Rep..... :shock:
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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salz4life wrote:Wow.... this d*uchebag Sales Rep..... :shock:
He was proud of being an ***...
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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Alou and A Ram booked flights home right after Game 6.... LOL
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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As far as Bartman goes, I am sick and tired of people saying that every baseball fan would have gone after that ball. I have seen games at Fenway park where Red Sox fans are restraining other fans on foul balls that the Red Sox might have a chance to catch. So while it is true that many would go after any ball, there actually are some thoughtful baseball fans out there who attempt to help their team by giving their defense a chance to get to every ball.

As far as the 30 For 30 series is concerned, there were really no bad episodes. Two of my favorite were ones that I had absolutely no idea about going it- The Birth of Big Air and the story about the South African rugby team. One I was a little disappointed in was the one about Michael Jordan attempting to make it with the White Sox because it almost seemed as though it was an apology for being harsh on him back in the mid 90's. I know that as a free citizen it was his right to leave the Bulls and attempt to become a baseball player, but a part of me will never forgive him for denying Bulls fans from enjoying an 8-peat during that time.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

Post by scubastevo »

The fantasy baseball 30 on 30 wasn't very good in my opinion. Outside of that most I liked even some I didn't think I'd like.

If Bartman caught the ball clean would it of been different? What about the 4 others grabbing for it, if you blame Bartman how come those devils aren't scapegoats.

Personally I don't think I'd grab it because I don't want to be that guy that misses a fly ball and gets ripped on.

It was game 6 and they had a lead. It was the cubs fault not Bartman.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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squirrel wrote:
salz4life wrote:Wow.... this d*uchebag Sales Rep..... :shock:
He was proud of being an ***...
A lot of Cubs fans should be embarassing IMO on how they behaved.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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Painful to watch, I turned it off. I have no idea if I would have attempted to make a play, nor do I know if most, all, none others would have. This guy did though. Absolutely embarrassing the reaction by a civilized society. Including Governors, Mayors, MLB Managers, Big time sports announcers, GM's at various media outlets etc. All fed the frenzy and lent false credibility to the outrage and anger..venom. One of the worst things to ever happen in professional sports IMO. This guys entire existence was altered over a foul ball, and there are still those that try to justify it. Meanwhile the players who imploded largely get a free pass. Bill Buckner and Gonzalez should be on the same pedestal IMO
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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jim beam wrote:Painful to watch, I turned it off. I have no idea if I would have attempted to make a play, nor do I know if most, all, none others would have. This guy did though. Absolutely embarrassing the reaction by a civilized society. Including Governors, Mayors, MLB Managers, Big time sports announcers, GM's at various media outlets etc. All fed the frenzy and lent false credibility to the outrage and anger..venom. One of the worst things to ever happen in professional sports IMO. This guys entire existence was altered over a foul ball, and there are still those that try to justify it. Meanwhile the players who imploded largely get a free pass. Bill Buckner and Gonzalez should be on the same pedestal IMO


I remember having a horrible sick feeling in my stomach, but it eventually went away, just like every other sports disappointment. I've been an athlete and fan for my entire life, and I've cheered, jeered celebrated, and sorrowed over sports, but how many reacted in that situation (and in the aftermath) is without reason. Those celebrations of championships live but only for a moment in our lives. Why do so many people allow the failures to overtake them? I feel sorry for those who have nothing in their lives to fill the empty space.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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tribecalledquest wrote:
squirrel wrote: No, he's the dummy that reached for a potentially in play ball. Fans who do that irritate me. They are spectators, not participants. And please understand that is independent from whether or not I think Alou had an actual play on the ball. I say that for all instances. On top of fans plunging out of the stands and sometimes to their deaths, I actually think MLB should clear out the first two rows.
Squirrel...that ball wasn't in play.

So if you were sitting there and a ball came right to you you would just move out of the way? Bartman did what almost every human being in existence would have done. He was one of many people trying to catch that ball. It was like he jumped over three rows and dove onto the field. This Bartman infatuation is ridiculous.
Agree Tribe.....if a ball is coming down at your head you either tuck and duck or reach out to "defend" yourself from getting beaned. Its a natural reaction.

I agree with squirrel these people that dive five rows to catch a ball or reach out so far they lose their balance...well thats just a bit much IMO but Bartman did NOTHING out-of-the-ordinary.

Baseball is played BETWEEN the white lines...anything in foul territory is subject to fans, pitching mounds, and whatever else is positioned in that area. IF a fan is making a reasonable attempt to catch the ball thats just the way it goes. Thats ALL Bartman was doing. PERIOD.
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