30 for 30: Catching Hell

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dogsrus
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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jim beam wrote:Painful to watch, I turned it off. I have no idea if I would have attempted to make a play, nor do I know if most, all, none others would have. This guy did though. Absolutely embarrassing the reaction by a civilized society. Including Governors, Mayors, MLB Managers, Big time sports announcers, GM's at various media outlets etc. All fed the frenzy and lent false credibility to the outrage and anger..venom. One of the worst things to ever happen in professional sports IMO. This guys entire existence was altered over a foul ball, and there are still those that try to justify it. Meanwhile the players who imploded largely get a free pass. Bill Buckner and Gonzalez should be on the same pedestal IMO
I agree JB....don't know what I would have done in that situation but Bartman did NOTHING wrong. I wish it would have never happened mostly for him but even as a Cub fan I would have liked to see Alou have a chance at that ball...but I will NEVER "blame" the Cub loss on THAT incident and certainly would never treat Bartman like some have treated him.... :gagl :gagr
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

Post by squirrel »

Overall, I didn't think this program was that great. I do think the focus on the reactions of everyone else was refreshing and helped shift some of the focus away from Bartman.

Also, before this episode aired, I couldn't tell you the last time Bartman was mentioned. So to imply that there is still an obsession is not entirely accurate.

All that said, I do think the program presented a couple interesting things:

1) I had not seen the 7 second delay video (IOW, what he was hearing as it unfolded). Be aware people that when you use portable devices, be it a walkman, iPad, or phone-you lose all spatial awareness. You don't need to yell just because you can't hear what you're saying, and don't mind the railroad tracks.

2) I do agree with the thesis that the crowd and fans reacted, largely based on Alou's reaction. I also thought it was interesting that he admits to being a bad fielder, but also says he has a good sense for when he has the ball or not. He feels he had that one.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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dogsrus wrote:but I will NEVER "blame" the Cub loss on THAT incident and certainly would never treat Bartman like some have treated him.... :gagl :gagr
Amen, Dogs...the thing that was most incredible to me was the salesman who is all like, "Yeah, I gave him away." and smiling about it :shock:
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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squirrel wrote:
dogsrus wrote:but I will NEVER "blame" the Cub loss on THAT incident and certainly would never treat Bartman like some have treated him.... :gagl :gagr
Amen, Dogs...the thing that was most incredible to me was the salesman who is all like, "Yeah, I gave him away." and smiling about it :shock:

He is the epitome of what other people think of the Cubs fanbase and it annoys the he!! out of me.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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salz4life wrote:
squirrel wrote:
dogsrus wrote:but I will NEVER "blame" the Cub loss on THAT incident and certainly would never treat Bartman like some have treated him.... :gagl :gagr
Amen, Dogs...the thing that was most incredible to me was the salesman who is all like, "Yeah, I gave him away." and smiling about it :shock:

He is the epitome of what other people think of the Cubs fanbase and it annoys the he!! out of me.

Not sure I'm following you Salz...you DO mean the salesman correct ? If so..yes I agree.....EVERY fanbase has idiots and he's living proof.
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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dogsrus wrote:

Not sure I'm following you Salz...you DO mean the salesman correct ? If so..yes I agree.....EVERY fanbase has idiots and he's living proof.

Most other fanbases think Cubs fans are idiots because of the Bartman mess and the salesman in this film is the reason why. He's f'ing happy with what he did. He's a horse's a** and gives all good Cubs fans a bad name.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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salz4life wrote:
dogsrus wrote:

Not sure I'm following you Salz...you DO mean the salesman correct ? If so..yes I agree.....EVERY fanbase has idiots and he's living proof.

Most other fanbases think Cubs fans are idiots because of the Bartman mess and the salesman in this film is the reason why. He's f'ing happy with what he did. He's a horse's a** and gives all good Cubs fans a bad name.
Only another horses ***/idiot would be dumb enough to judge an entire fan base by one, or a few, other idiots.

I don't subscribe to a fan base's identity being established or effected by this. Every fan base has idiots, and they are the only one's making generalizations about every other fan base.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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USofA wrote:
salz4life wrote:
dogsrus wrote:

Not sure I'm following you Salz...you DO mean the salesman correct ? If so..yes I agree.....EVERY fanbase has idiots and he's living proof.

Most other fanbases think Cubs fans are idiots because of the Bartman mess and the salesman in this film is the reason why. He's f'ing happy with what he did. He's a horse's a** and gives all good Cubs fans a bad name.
Only another horses ***/idiot would be dumb enough to judge an entire fan base by one, or a few, other idiots.

I don't subscribe to a fan base's identity being established or effected by this. Every fan base has idiots, and they are the only one's making generalizations about every other fan base.

Agree with BOTH of you guys......
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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USofA wrote:
salz4life wrote:
dogsrus wrote:

Not sure I'm following you Salz...you DO mean the salesman correct ? If so..yes I agree.....EVERY fanbase has idiots and he's living proof.

Most other fanbases think Cubs fans are idiots because of the Bartman mess and the salesman in this film is the reason why. He's f'ing happy with what he did. He's a horse's a** and gives all good Cubs fans a bad name.
Only another horses ***/idiot would be dumb enough to judge an entire fan base by one, or a few, other idiots.

I don't subscribe to a fan base's identity being established or effected by this. Every fan base has idiots, and they are the only one's making generalizations about every other fan base.
You mean all Cardinal fans don't wear jean shorts with sleeveless t-shirts, have tribal armband tattoos, mullets, and goatees? ;)
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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Beanie wrote: You mean all Cardinal fans don't wear jean shorts with sleeveless t-shirts, have tribal armband tattoos, mullets, and goatees? ;)
The tribal armband tats are out now. They are evolving. :)
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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USofA wrote:
salz4life wrote:
dogsrus wrote:

Not sure I'm following you Salz...you DO mean the salesman correct ? If so..yes I agree.....EVERY fanbase has idiots and he's living proof.

Most other fanbases think Cubs fans are idiots because of the Bartman mess and the salesman in this film is the reason why. He's f'ing happy with what he did. He's a horse's a** and gives all good Cubs fans a bad name.
Only another horses ***/idiot would be dumb enough to judge an entire fan base by one, or a few, other idiots.

I don't subscribe to a fan base's identity being established or effected by this. Every fan base has idiots, and they are the only one's making generalizations about every other fan base.

Well, you definitely aren't an idiot (well, at least on this topic.... ;))
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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Most good teams would not have lost focus after the Bartman incident. Prior and Gonzalez both lost composure and that was the game. Remember, they had game 7 and Kerry Woods and couldn't even pull it out. The Cubs will always blame the Billy Goat, the black cat or whatever. This time we blamed Bartman! Enough on the subject.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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deejay wrote:This time we blamed Bartman!

Most intelligent Cubs fans don't/didn't.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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salz4life wrote:
deejay wrote:This time we blamed Bartman!

Most intelligent Cubs fans don't/didn't.
Thank you salz.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

Post by houstontxbrave »

This whole Bartman thing is just another "excuse" to feel sorry for the Cub franchise. Oh if he wouldnt have or a goat or a black cat. Whatever, the actions on the field after the foul ball went into the stands is why Chicago lost that game.

The thing to me is Baker immediately needed to go to the mound take a few minutes and get everyone back focused. Then you have Gonzales who is the actual "goat" in this game dropping a chest high 2 hop double play.

Whatever Bartman did or didnt do should have been long forgotten when Gonzales misplayed a routine play.

The whole thing of trying to blame a guy for touching a foul ball that was also touched by others as the reason for a game being lost is exactly why the Cubs organization is in a word Pathetic.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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houstontxbrave wrote:
The whole thing of trying to blame a guy for touching a foul ball that was also touched by others as the reason for a game being lost is exactly why the Cubs organization is in a word Pathetic.

Can you tell me who in the Cubs organization is blaming Bartman for the Cubs losing that series?
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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salz4life wrote:
houstontxbrave wrote:
The whole thing of trying to blame a guy for touching a foul ball that was also touched by others as the reason for a game being lost is exactly why the Cubs organization is in a word Pathetic.

Can you tell me who in the Cubs organization is blaming Bartman for the Cubs losing that series?
Just the other day I heard Oneri Fleita blaming Josh Vitters' lack of development on Bartman. :roll:
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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salz4life wrote:
houstontxbrave wrote:
The whole thing of trying to blame a guy for touching a foul ball that was also touched by others as the reason for a game being lost is exactly why the Cubs organization is in a word Pathetic.

Can you tell me who in the Cubs organization is blaming Bartman for the Cubs losing that series?
Moises Alou sure had no problems that evening acting like it was "someones" fault. Regardless, Ill rephrase the "cubs orgainization" to the fan base of the cubs organization if you would prefer is pathetic for any of that base to blame Bartman for losing that game.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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Wow. Hey salz4life....I give you exhibit A... :shock: ;)
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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USofA wrote:Wow. Hey salz4life....I give you exhibit A... :shock: ;)
:td
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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houstontxbrave wrote:
salz4life wrote:
houstontxbrave wrote:
The whole thing of trying to blame a guy for touching a foul ball that was also touched by others as the reason for a game being lost is exactly why the Cubs organization is in a word Pathetic.

Can you tell me who in the Cubs organization is blaming Bartman for the Cubs losing that series?
Moises Alou sure had no problems that evening acting like it was "someones" fault. Regardless, Ill rephrase the "cubs orgainization" to the fan base of the cubs organization if you would prefer is pathetic for any of that base to blame Bartman for losing that game.

and since then, he has said on several occasions (including in the film last night) that it was NOT his fault. The only thing he said last night was that he would've caught the ball if Bartman/other fans were not going after it. That, of course, cannot be proven, but he's not blaming Bartman for the loss. Their are some idiots in the fanbase that to this day, blame Bartman for the loss. I don't think anyone in the Cubs organization does, however.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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Beanie wrote:
salz4life wrote:
houstontxbrave wrote:
The whole thing of trying to blame a guy for touching a foul ball that was also touched by others as the reason for a game being lost is exactly why the Cubs organization is in a word Pathetic.

Can you tell me who in the Cubs organization is blaming Bartman for the Cubs losing that series?
Just the other day I heard Oneri Fleita blaming Josh Vitters' lack of development on Bartman. :roll:


This idiotic Cub fan has been blaming Denkinger.... :jokerc
So I was in the airport the other day and I saw AL B., PM me if you want more details.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

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USofA wrote:Wow. Hey salz4life....I give you exhibit A... :shock: ;)

I have to admit. This has flown over my head. I really am an idiot today.
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

Post by Reggie »

Just finished watching it on DVR and a few things stuck out:

1. Loved the shot where they took every fan out of the picture and just showed the ball coming down to where Alou was. I was already convinced that he would have caught the ball, and this shot just reaffirmed it.

2. Considering how masterful Prior was for 7 1/3 I was surprised that he had such a high pitch count. If the Cubs had a better bullpen it is likely that a reliever would have been warmed up and ready to go once Prior started to lose it- which he did fast that night. The Cubs addressed the bullpen in the off-season, but for that night they were left to the likes of Dave Veres and Kyle Farnsworth to put out the fire. :shock:

3. I do not recall the narrator saying that Alex Gonzalez declined to be interviewed, so I am wondering if he was even approached for this. Considering that they spent so much time a player who was not on the Cubs (Bill Buckner), I would think they might have been interested in Gonzalez. BTW- the portrayal of Buckner leading the '84 Cubs to success before being traded was not exactly accurate. Leon Durham was the opening day first baseman that year and Buckner made some spot starts at first and in left field- hardly a leading figure.

4. The film did a good job of putting the Bartman incident in perspective as to how it changed the aura of that stadium and the series at the moment it took place. I once saw a professor say that before it happened that the Cubs had a 94% probability of winning that game and that at the moment Bartman touched the ball they still had a 94% probability of winning. What this showed more than anything else is that the psyche of professional athletes can be just as delicate as that of the fans. We expect professional athletes to be mentally tough and rise above little distractions like the Bartman incident was (or at least should have been), but this showed that they are human, too. The Bartman play was not as key for taking away a key out as much it was for putting bad thoughts into the heads of players and fans alike.

5. Four things happened that inning that defied expectations: Bartman touching the ball, Gonzalez making the error, Derrek Lee getting a clutch hit (he had been awful in the series up to his 8th inning AB), and the total collapse of Mark Prior. If there was ever a half-inning that should be put into a time-capsule to show future generation of baseball fans what it is like being a Cubs fan, this was it. :cry:
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Re: 30 for 30: Catching Hell

Post by squirrel »

Another thing, too, that I've often wondered...

Obviously focus was the major issue Gonzo missed the gimme double-play, I have often wondered if the distraction Alou's reaction and the temporarily delay while the umpire ran to the scene, if and how much Gonzo was out of position.
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