Wrong direction

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shaunguth
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by shaunguth » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:51 pm

BradleyBrave wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:06 pm
Starting fast and finishing near the bottom (Thursday) in a depleted league isn’t progress. It’s leveling off. Instead of picking fights AGAIN with the beat writer maybe just answer the questions and figure out how to save the *** season.
Did I already miss the end of the season? There are still games to be played and we're just as close to 3rd as we are Thursday. What does answering questions have to do with where the team finishes?
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by shaunguth » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm

jim beam wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:38 am
squirrel wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:21 am
SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:11 am

They desperately need to make some tweaks and figure something out over the next three weeks or this will be yet again another squandered season of what could have been
This is where I don't get the repeated pessimism from some of you-in what ways has the program not responded after difficult stretches like this? There has always been an answer. What makes some of you assume there won't be?

I get the frustration, but there's an awful lot of confirmation bias in opposition to what the historical evidence shows. We're missing the forest through the trees here.
How can you "get the frustration" and then say what you say. It seems like you dont understand the frustration and pessimism some have, which is fine but I dont understand that stance
2017-18 7-7
2016-17 7-11
2015-16 3-15
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by shaunguth » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:00 pm

real fan wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:49 am
SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:07 am
I'm so *** sick of the young and tired comments...those are just more excuses for people that are ok with being average or mediocre.

When will it end?! STOP providing built in excuses for why we haven't gotten better over the course of the season...

If it's not one thing its something else!
The we are young does not fly with me anymore , continuing to make the same mistakes and coach not really changing much of anything to me is a very serious problem that will not go away anytime soon. We have a serious talent problem at several key positions.
Of course we do...there have been TWO full recruiting classes coming off 5-27 and 13-20 seasons!
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by shaunguth » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:09 pm

pndbaseball12 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:00 pm
SaintLouBrave22 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:27 pm
BradleyMathGrad wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:18 pm

I'm not going to argue back and forth. We clearly have very different opinions and neither of us are going to change each others minds. I do think that your expectations are a bit unrealistic. If we go 2-2 in the last 4 and win 1 game in STL, that will get us to 20 wins. I'll repeat that...20 wins. I don't care who we've played or how we've looked in some of the losses. Brian Wardle was given absolutely nothing when he got here except for a very raw Donte Thomas and Ka'Daryll Bell. We got five wins that first year. We are going to have a 13-15 win improvement over the past two seasons.

And I get what you're saying about improving, but don't make Wardle out to be void of criticism as it was mainly his doing to make the cupboard bare when he came in...HE and he alone chose to send several guys packing...so while he can be given praise for keeping Donte here and for getting some talent in (Childs, Brown), he can also be criticized for the way he handled a few guys before their departure as well as several recruiting misses.
Just to play devils advocate, what have any of those guys that he ran off(other than Cunningham who wasnt coming back no matter who the coach was) done since they left BU? Maybe Xzavier Taylor would be the only one worth anything. I mean we cant say for sure that we would be in a better spot with keeping some of them here, and we could be even 1 more year behind the curve if that happened. Its all speculation.
Yes....no reason to keep the players that went 3-15. The majority were clearly recruiting misses by the last guy, or better yet his assistant coach. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Taylor given a chance to stay and blew that too. Yet another guy who was not needed in this locker room!
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by shaunguth » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:10 pm

real fan wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:19 pm
My problem is it seems like most on here think we are losing because we are young and that will get better over time.
Really? To me, it seems like most on here already have us playing on Thursday!
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by JMM28 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:24 pm

This team is going to finish 3-1.

ISU with just Me-lik easy 12 point victory.

Valpo is awful. Should be a win even at their Spalding Gym lookalike.

Missouri State is probably a loss, but they aren’t exactly some sort of intimidating presence.

Indiana State at home on Donte night/afternoon. W.

I’ve enjoyed the hell out of this season. It’s a lot more fun that way. BU lost 3 games in a row and only one was one I thought should be a win. It happens.

Then we’ve got STL which this team has as good of a chance as any to win 3 straight. Who knows.

And then next year it’s championship time.

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by ollienanyes » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:13 pm

The ESPN power ranking projections have us comfortably favored at home against ISU red and ISU blue..and a slight underdog to Valpo at their place..and a solid underdog at Mo. State.

Finishing at 9-9 in MVC play sounds about right to me, which represents progress. Maybe a bit of post season ball? (one of those made up tournaments)

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by squirrel » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:55 pm

The point is: why do we lament guys who were here either our of convenience or obligation, and are not here when the #$#$#(*&% gets deep; yet guys who CHOSE to be here out of a sense of opportunity, and in each of Wardle's 3 years are still here, standing, and fighting through the tough times we want to throw under the bus at the same time they've helped turned a garbage program into a respectable program?

The guys who are here have guts. In 3 years, only only player has cut tail mid-season. That says a lot to me about the character of player Wardle seeks and gets.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by dss03 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:44 pm

On the flip side, Cunningham went with Bradley when he had options such as Indiana available to him, and did it after a 12 win season. I know he was tagged as selfish, because he shot too many 3’s, but not too many selfish players work on the glass like he did for us and does now, after serious injury.

I’d be inclined to move on, and if there is any comment left to be made, be appreciative he came on campus when 99 out of his 100 peers would have went to the power conference right from the start.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by dss03 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:59 pm

To the greater point, I identify more with Wardle’s crockpot approach to building a program, which is what I think Squirrel may be really getting at, though I think Cunningham doesn’t need to be brought into that.

I like Jucos when you have an obvious need. I think the 2 and/or 3 are obvious needs right now. I had hopes Lundy got it filled, but don’t look too good, does it?

I think Bradley fans on this board consistently overestimate how easily you can recruit big classes. They want to run off everyone who plays less than 10 mins. Who can you sell on the program, though?

Maybe Wardle has built things to where he can sell 4 strong recruits to the program. That would be clear progress. People wanted a huge number of scholarships every year and were continuously disappointed when the recruits that they demanded be opened failed to live up to expectations. Then they demanded more scholarships open, which generally happened, and then were even more disappointed the next year, and demanded more scholarships....... I like JUCO’s a lot, but I think you have to have a foundation in place before you go to that well too heavily.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by shaunguth » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:18 am

dss03 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:59 pm
I think Bradley fans on this board consistently overestimate how easily you can recruit big classes. They want to run off everyone who plays less than 10 mins.
Yes, I would be perfectly fine "running off everyone" (all two of them) who plays less than 10 minutes a game, both of which are upperclassmen. One has played less then 3 minutes per Valley game and the other a whopping 0.4 minutes per Valley game.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by jim beam » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:56 am

A lot of you guys make generalizations ( see what I did there) about other posters and fans. Quite frankly I'm tired of being told to simmer down,or how to be and what to think or if I think a certain way, its fine, or I shouldn't be concerned with this or that. I will say and feel what I want and be concerned with what I want about this team. I don't call out players by name for anything negative, maybe if they are the one delegated to carry out a bad coaching assignment, I will call out a coach if I don't like a play or scheme. But if I think they are playing like crap and I don't see how they are going to change that, I am ok with posters offereing solutions, but not from the angle that you are so much smarter and more enlightended because you use doplar radar, or some pompom system or tweet with nerds on call and the analytics tell you that we are going to finish 2-2 etc...... You tell other posters to stop it with their emotions and observations and pessimism, but how can you deny fans emotions. How bout you stop it with the condescending holier than thou snarkiness and put away the dissecting mentality and talk about hoops as you see it

And btw, the Stips flu thing is over the top :D
Thanks J.J. for what I consider sound advice!

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by theheemymonster » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:19 am

We aren't as bad as we have played the last 3 games and we aren't as good as we played the 3 games before that. We are right in the middle as most of us predicted before the season. My goals were 17-19 wins total with 8-10 wins in conference plus staying out of Thursday... we split the next 4 games and we are right there... now if we go 1-3 or worse I am going to be concerned...just win on Wednesday and we will all be happy again

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by shaunguth » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:23 am

theheemymonster wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:19 am
...just win on Wednesday and we will all be happy again
I doubt it.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by BeBrave » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:49 am

jim beam wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:56 am
but not from the angle that you are so much smarter and more enlightended because you use doplar radar, or some pompom system or tweet with nerds on call and the analytics tell you that we are going to finish 2-2 etc......
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior Brian Wardle?

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by ollienanyes » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 am

:lol: :lol:

All I am saying is that, based on power rankings, we appear to playing to expectations. Frankly, I am delighted that BU fans now expect the team to win home games. To ME, that is acceptable progress, to date.

Now tomorrow's game is really big for me since I am taking an ISU graduate to the game. Last year I had to listen to her talk smack..and am hoping for some payback this year!

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by BeBrave » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:34 am

From a certain perspective, the amount of ****ed off people on this board when we lose a couple games is a good thing. Bradley is lucky to have people still interested enough to be upset and questioning the coach and program after the last decade.

The reason the last few losses hurt so much is because we had a little streak that showed we could compete with the top of the conference. We were talking championships before the Drake loss! Take a breath. Realistically, Bradley is right where they should be. 7-7 with 2 home games and 2 road games left. Go 9-9 (with an outside shot at 10-7), stay out of Thursday and I call it a success and keep moving up. The best is yet to come.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by shaunguth » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:34 am

ollienanyes wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 am
:lol: :lol:

All I am saying is that, based on power rankings, we appear to playing to expectations. Frankly, I am delighted that BU fans now expect the team to win home games. To ME, that is acceptable progress, to date.

Now tomorrow's game is really big for me since I am taking an ISU graduate to the game. Last year I had to listen to her talk smack..and am hoping for some payback this year!
Yes, but missing three players gives them a built-in excuse.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by jim beam » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:38 am

BeBrave wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:34 am
From a certain perspective, the amount of ****ed off people on this board when we lose a couple games is a good thing. Bradley is lucky to have people still interested enough to be upset and questioning the coach and program after the last decade.

The reason the last few losses hurt so much is because we had a little streak that showed we could compete with the top of the conference. We were talking championships before the Drake loss! Take a breath. Realistically, Bradley is right where they should be. 7-7 with 2 home games and 2 road games left. Go 9-9 (with an outside shot at 10-7), stay out of Thursday and I call it a success and keep moving up. The best is yet to come.
Very fair. Everybody is different. Im not a big picture fan. Im play by play - possession by possession- half by half-game by game observer. So that makes me more seseptiple to the highs and lows.
Thanks J.J. for what I consider sound advice!

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by dss03 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:05 am

shaunguth wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:18 am
dss03 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:59 pm
I think Bradley fans on this board consistently overestimate how easily you can recruit big classes. They want to run off everyone who plays less than 10 mins.
Yes, I would be perfectly fine "running off everyone" (all two of them) who plays less than 10 minutes a game, both of which are upperclassmen. One has played less then 3 minutes per Valley game and the other a whopping 0.4 minutes per Valley game.
Yes, poorly stated there. Wardle seems to value continuity as much as possible, which is a good thing. I feel there has been too much instability, recruiting big classes is tough, and if he is getting 2 or 3 quality recruits that will stay each class he’s doing well, and if he gets more than 3 he’s doing great. Do you agree?
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by ER3 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:06 am

shaunguth wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:18 am
dss03 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:59 pm
I think Bradley fans on this board consistently overestimate how easily you can recruit big classes. They want to run off everyone who plays less than 10 mins.
Yes, I would be perfectly fine "running off everyone" (all two of them) who plays less than 10 minutes a game, both of which are upperclassmen. One has played less then 3 minutes per Valley game and the other a whopping 0.4 minutes per Valley game.
I realize it is incredibly difficult to go out into the recruiting pool and pick up 3, 4, 5 guys in a class that are somewhere between solid and really good Valley players...that's tough to do...especially for a team that hasn't won with any consistency in a really long time...

But if we are expecting to take a step forward next year, I just don't see how we can realistically expect to do that if we have Callum Barker, Luqman Lundy, Luuk Van Bree, Antoine Pittman, Ari Boya, and Armon Brummett taking up 6 of our 13 scholarships. Now, I know things will happen between now and the spring...Boya may not be able to reclassify, Pittman may not return, another guy may graduate early and move on, etc...but we really need an infusion of talent that can contribute next year...we can't be stuck in this same situation as we are this year where we get into February and have 7 guys that are capable of playing meaningful minutes for us...a couple of which aren't giving us much production in those minutes...

We've been lucky enough to have avoided the injury bug over the last few years...but we can't expect that to continue...We are one injury to a guard away from Luqman Lundy having to play 15-20 minutes a game right now...We need to do whatever is necessary to make sure that isn't the situation next year...

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by dss03 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:08 am

Great point on the injuries. We’ve had some good fortune this year. I definitely agree some scholarships need to open, and we simply must find a guard that is ready to help year one.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by tribecalledquest » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:12 am

dss03 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:08 am
Great point on the injuries. We’ve had some good fortune this year. I definitely agree some scholarships need to open, and we simply must find a guard that is ready to help year one.
I've said that about the injuries as well. Look at all the players missing time in the MVC this year due to injury. Bradley hasn't had a key player miss anytime yet this season--and I don't think they had to last season either. Let's hope this doesn't even out.
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Re: Wrong direction

Post by ER3 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:18 am

dss03 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:08 am
Great point on the injuries. We’ve had some good fortune this year. I definitely agree some scholarships need to open, and we simply must find a guard that is ready to help year one.
Yes to all of this...

I know there will be movement on the roster between March and June...I know we will likely bring in a couple additional players in the spring/summer...Hopefully once that happens it will be easier to look at the roster at that point and feel confident in projecting a step forward for us next year...

This roster as it currently stands...if those players just get a year older...and add two raw, upside guys in Boya and Brummett to them...that just isn't a roster that has enough depth or talent to project as anything more than 5th-7th place Valley team next year, IMO.

We've got some work to do this spring...I'm sure the staff sees that...and I'm hoping that we finish strong this year and that gives them the momentum they need to succeed in their spring recruiting efforts...

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Re: Wrong direction

Post by ollienanyes » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:43 am

shaunguth wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:34 am
ollienanyes wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 am
:lol: :lol:

All I am saying is that, based on power rankings, we appear to playing to expectations. Frankly, I am delighted that BU fans now expect the team to win home games. To ME, that is acceptable progress, to date.

Now tomorrow's game is really big for me since I am taking an ISU graduate to the game. Last year I had to listen to her talk smack..and am hoping for some payback this year!
Yes, but missing three players gives them a built-in excuse.
True, but given all the previous years when WE have had players missing...like the one year when we had the team manager playing serious minutes for us...

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